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ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

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  • ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    Hi folks, thought Id try the forum with my problem. My giotto has been at the repair shop 3x times and they return it each time saying no fault found. Its been hard for the repair shop to troubleshoot as I thought it was intermittent. They switch it on, pull some shots and say "its fine" and send it back to me.

    After lots of testing at home, I have worked out that this problem doesnt happen right after its been switched on. Here is the routine that causes my Giotto to fail:

    1. Switch on and wait 30 mins to pressure up.
    2. Pressure is normal, test water temp coming from group head - normal.
    3. Pull a couple of "god" shots from my naked PF. Good steam and pressure.
    4. Leave the machine switched on for a good 4-5hours.
    5. Dose another shot (Mazzer Mini) and run the water from the Giotto for 10 secs. OK. Pressure normal.
    6. Pull the shot. Extraction starts, runs for about 5 seconds. and then the whole machine stops. The extraction, and from what I can tell, the pump sound inside starts and stops and little dribbles of the extraction falls into the cup. It then stops altogether after producing around 15ml of a double shot.

    Anyone experienced anything like this? I am simply shutting my machine on and off all day to make sure I can get coffee out of it at the moment.

    Ill post a video of this if there is sufficient interest in this thread.

  • #2
    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

    What do you mean STOPS ?

    Detail please -


    How do you restart ?


    Detail please -

    I have two thoughts but need more detail... Lots of detail... Do not assume I can see the machine or what your doing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

      Originally posted by 717D74747777617C2270120 link=1270764813/0#0 date=1270764813
      Hi folks, thought Id try the forum with my problem. My giotto has been at the repair shop 3x times and they return it each time saying no fault found. Its been hard for the repair shop to troubleshoot as I thought it was intermittent. They switch it on, pull some shots and say "its fine" and send it back to me.  

      After lots of testing at home, I have worked out that this problem doesnt happen right after its been switched on. Here is the routine that causes my Giotto to fail:

      1. Switch on and wait 30 mins to pressure up.
      2. Pressure is normal, test water temp coming from group head - normal.
      3. Pull a couple of "god" shots from my naked PF. Good steam and pressure.
      4. Leave the machine switched on for a good 4-5hours.
      5. Dose another shot (Mazzer Mini) and run the water from the Giotto for 10 secs. OK. Pressure normal.
      6. Pull the shot. Extraction starts, runs for about 5 seconds. and then the whole machine stops. The extraction, and from what I can tell, the pump sound inside starts and stops and little dribbles of the extraction falls into the cup. It then stops altogether after producing around 15ml of a double shot.

      Anyone experienced anything like this? I am simply shutting my machine on and off all day to make sure I can get coffee out of it at the moment.

      Ill post a video of this if there is sufficient interest in this thread.
      Hi CS.

      Your machine thinks it has no water. Its an easy fix and I am surprised your agent doesnt know why it happens at your place and not his:
      • Clean the tank probe and screw in the coupling
      • Remove boiler probe assembly and clean the probe too
      • Remove the coupling from the base of the tank and pack it out a little- Gas Teflon or or a teflon spacer can be used for identical effect


      This can happen with the GPP and heavily filtered water or GP with the new Proelind control board. If there are no dissolved solids, the water cannot conduct charge and machine thinks its empty..

      Tell us about your filtration, if any?

      Hope that helps. You might like to tell your service bloke as well :

      If youd like to bring it in, I am happy to look over it for you....

      Chris


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

        Originally posted by 57626F685C406C65656666030 link=1270764813/2#2 date=1270765395
        Hi CS.

        Your machine thinks it has no water. Its an easy fix and I am surprised your agent doesnt know why it happens at your place and not his:

        Clean the tank probe and screw in the coupling
        Remove boiler probe assembly and clean the probe too
        Remove the coupling from the base of the tank and pack it out a little- Gas Teflon or or a teflon spacer can be used for identical effect


        This can happen with the GPP and heavily filtered water or GP with the new Proelind control board. If there are no dissolved solids, the water cannot conduct charge and machine thinks its empty..

        Tell us about your filtration, if any?

        Hope that helps. You might like to tell your service bloke as well

        If youd like to bring it in, I am happy to look over it for you....

        Chris
        I like it...


        I also assumed that he would just turn OFF / reset and all would be fine again...

        Also assumed a low water experience would give some visual indication ie. Flashing led etc..

        Due to the working and on for a few hrs.. The term stop.. To me, meant NO Power / No Pump or even ELCB.

        Thus am aware that some of the vibe pumps have resettable OT sensors or teh Boiler etc.

        Got caught with a BZ that would go off after a few hrs.. But would run with the covers off :-) Liked to be naked Had me baffled for a while but the the sensor was faulty...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

          Geez AM....

          That new avatar of yours looks a bit gruesome....

          The aftermath of an electrical flash-over is it?

          Mal.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

            Originally posted by 674A4E424F230 link=1270764813/4#4 date=1270793275
            Geez AM....

            That new avatar of yours looks a bit gruesome....

            The aftermath of an electrical flash-over is it?

            Mal.
            Na just needed a coffee body scrub... Gives you that all over tingly feeling.

            Opps

            BOT.


            So coffeesn0b what was the outcome ?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

              Phew....

              Thats a relief mate. One of my old bosses at GEC looked a bit like that after an ACB carriage shorted across the bus and blew out over him while he was racking it in.....

              Mal.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

                Originally posted by 1C31353934580 link=1270764813/6#6 date=1270795065
                Phew....

                Thats a relief mate. One of my old bosses at GEC looked a bit like that after an ACB carriage shorted across the bus and blew out over him while he was racking it in.....

                Mal.
                Molten metal ... Reminds me... Where did I put my watch...  Forever taking it off when working on this carp and can never find it..  

                Took my wedding ring and another family ring off the other month..  Still can not find them...

                Trust me... Some where safe.

                Interesting enough... She has not noticed  ;D

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

                  Thanks to those who responded. I have made a very rushed video clip to illustrate the problem. Its uploading to youtube now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

                    Originally posted by 200F0604132C000F0006040C040F15610 link=1270764813/1#1 date=1270765201
                    What do you mean STOPS ?

                    Detail please -


                    How do you restart ?


                    Detail please -

                    I have two thoughts but need more detail... Lots of detail... Do not assume I can see the machine or what your doing.

                    You are all right. The word "Stop" is a little misleading. The pump sounds like it is stopping and starting. The machine appears to still be "on" though. Hopefully the video will shed some light on my poor descriptions


                    "Restart" means I need to switch it off for at least an hour and then back on again. Switching it on and off does not solve the issue.

                    Also when I remove the PortaF and pull the lever it immediately starts pumping water through. Weird.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

                      Here is the video of my Giotto being a pain:
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iXG2FuYSoY

                      also...

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozBkNjc4ijM

                      What do you guys reckon?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

                        Originally posted by 575B52525151475A0456340 link=1270764813/10#10 date=1271548002
                        Here is the video of my Giotto being a pain:
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iXG2FuYSoY

                        also...

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozBkNjc4ijM

                        What do you guys reckon?
                        I reckon the shots are choking and that you might also consider taking your machine to a service agent to have it checked....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

                          This only happens once the machine has been sitting for more than 5-6hrs without changing any variables. (grind, tamp)

                          Once it starts doing this, the only way to get it going again is to shut it off and let it cool for an hour or so.

                          The service agent has had it 3x times but cant find fault because they switch it on, test it ok, and put it back on the shelf!  Time to find another service agent I think...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

                            Hi coffeesn0b ,
                                                 it isnt something really obscure like a microswitch fault - you could see  if putting a piece of thick cardboard between the cam and the microswitch and pulling a shot ( effectively adjusting the microswitch plunger travel).Maybe the group is moving relative to the switch plunger through  thermal expansion of the front panel . Or - if the Ulka pump is fitted with a PTC resistor ( some machines do , lots dont ) maybe its just aged and is now only just capable of  running the pump when cold - and the additional self heating when the machine is hot and the pump is started cause the pump to stop.
                            The other test to try (( Qualified person only please - its dangerous !! ) is to disconnect the autofill sensor to the boiler as a shot is being pulled AND the machine is hot - the boiler fill 2 way valve should click in , and the pump should run continuously ( but dont try it for too long and over fill the boiler ) - you can sort of  emulate this by running hot  water  from the boiler white a shot is running .

                            time to do an experiment or 2 !

                            pip.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: ECM Giotto Premium Woes - shutting off mid way through shots

                              Originally posted by 73464B4C78644841414242270 link=1270764813/11#11 date=1271549092
                              I reckon the shots are choking and that you might also consider taking your machine to a service agent to have it checked....
                              hi chris i agree with the second statement. take it into chris at TalkCoffee or Craig at 9Bar
                              it doesnt seem to me like the shot choking coz the initial part of the extraction looks ok...

                              on a side note, unless its the vid camera, those beans dont look like theyre producing much crema in your long black there...

                              Comment

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