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New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Originally posted by 47787E796463524F627461680D0 link=1283661340/18#18 date=1284425976
The reason why I say that some would argue a dual boiler isnt suitable is that they really are better for high turnover. In an HX the brew water is heated instantly, a dual boiler the brew water is always at temp. Some would argue that water shouldnt be held at high temp or it affects the flavor.
The specifics of the machine need to be taken into account here. The better domestic dual boiler designs have a far smaller boiler to ensure that there is good water turnover. Check the specs of the Izzo and the LaSpaziale Vivaldi II. The second thing to consider is if there is a difference, are you able to taste it? :-?
Originally posted by 4F6861606263790D0 link=1283661340/19#19 date=1284541573
Thanks mate, Im making the long trek to Talk Coffee in the morning.
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Thanks mate, Im making the long trek to Talk Coffee in the morning. Ive got my eye on 3 machines and think it might come down to bench space that influences my decision after doing a few measurements today.
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Belmont given that you even considered an Izzo Alex this early in the journey it sounds like you are someone that likes to go all out and buy the best at the start. The Izzo is certainly one of the best home coffee machines out there and no doubt you have heard that the juras are one of the best superautos. I would be pretty certain in saying that if you buy a jura you will be back on the net or here trying to learn how to get the best out of it. Thing is I would almost guarantee that you will eventually come to the conclusion that you chose the wrong machine and inevitably upgrade to an HX or dual boiler machine.
Unless you have an absolute desire to buy the best an Izzo isnt necessary and some would argue not suitable. An HX machine will be slightly cheaper and serve you equally as well. The reason why I say that some would argue a dual boiler isnt suitable is that they really are better for high turnover. In an HX the brew water is heated instantly, a dual boiler the brew water is always at temp. Some would argue that water shouldnt be held at high temp or it affects the flavor. If that truly is the case then you would have to brew off a fair bit of water to make sure the brew water is fresh. I think the jury is still out on this one and I cant confirm or deny it but I thought I would let you know all the same.
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Originally posted by 1E3930313332285C0 link=1283661340/15#15 date=1284346685
Thanks guys, Ive booked a time with my local non-sponsor supplier this week to have a look at the Giotto Rocket.
Thats a shame Belmont, as I know we better them on aspects of the deal....You may well find it worth a drive or we can ship to you overnight.
I trained a client about a year ago on one of their machines. She had received no training or support materials whatsoever... In addition, the simple stuff on a bench test such as a pressure check had not been done. :
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Originally posted by 725E5E415443070862310 link=1283661340/13#13 date=1284007489
Nespresso machines make very average coffee for a very high price
My son in law had one for a couple of months, the coffee was way below average and yes it was expensive, he now has a Silvia.
My feeling is instant and pod coffee are both crap, just different types of crap.
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Originally posted by 4F6861606263790D0 link=1283661340/0#0 date=1283661340
There is also the ease of use factor for my wife, and the cleaning aspect when using fresh beans.I am currently trying to talk her out of the Nespresso option.
I think what youd need to emphasise is that making coffee with a HX or DB machine really is not difficult at all. I dare say most of us actually find the process quite enjoyable.
Nespresso machines make very average coffee for a very high price - calculate the price per cup with pods compared to using fresh beans and you might be surprised.
We rented a Saeco superauto for a while where I used to work. Coffee was barely ok with fresh beans, milk texture from the auto frother was dreadful and cleaning was a bit of a pain. Boss ended up replacing it with a nespresso - easier to use but worse coffee.
also once youre comfortable with the manual process, youll easily be able to make 2 single shot milk based drinks in under 3 minutes which I doubt is much slower than a nespresso, since they need to do one at a time...
I cant really comment on the Jura, although I did have a client once who had one. I attempted to use it but theyd thrown away the milk steaming attachment and reprogrammed it to deliver a 200ml shot :P leaving just enough room to top up with cold milk like instant. Next time I went there it was gone, apparently people there didnt like the coffee it made... strangely enough ;D
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Yep I think it centers around the "upgraditis" tendencies of forum posters... So many people come here asking "what should I buy next?"
If you buy an HX, will you want to upgrade to a double boiler later??
Very doubtful.. Unless youre roasting your own beans & constantly adjusting brew temps & pressures, a double boiler is unncessary at home.
I came here with a budget of $500 and ended up spending $3k..but so happy I did!
A quick check of various CS forums reveals that, in the <$1500 categories, most threads are about problems...lots of horror stories. Whereas in the $1500-3000 category, its all about "which machine should I buy?" following up with "I love my new machine!" (and then you dont hear from them again, ever...lol)
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Gday Belmont,
You and your wife,s goal is to have the best coffee possible.
If possible, a gentle persuation by easing her into some simple good and clean techniques of grinding, dosing, tamping and brewing, knock the grounds into the knock box... you might never know, with time, it gets into a routine and rythum a good manual machine is not so hard after all.
Regardless of you and your wife,s choice, freshness is a key. Good quality ingredients, and you,re halfway there.
Re: New machine selection - are these chalk and cheese?
Originally posted by 585F54545F4E4E3A0 link=1283661340/8#8 date=1283738034
This isnt a criticism, just an observation. I find it amazing the number of people who come to research on Coffeesnobs and end up thinking they need a dual boiler. Like Chris said, they are great, and maybe one day I might get one - the IZZO looks like a beautiful machine, however you can get amazing coffee out of a Hx machine or even a single boiler. I guess people just want to avoid the possible need to upgrade in the future.
Its been a few years now since Chris at Talk Coffee discussed with me my needs and wants regarding a coffee machine and grinder.
I had almost made up my mind on the Silvia and Rocky combo but something wasnt quite right.
More discussions led to me choosing the Expobar Leva (HX).
The Expobare Minore (dual boiler) was discussed but discounted by me.
All these years down the track and the machine has kept me in excellent coffee and no theres been sign of upgraditis at all.
Work out your needs and wants; when you find the machine that best fit those criteria it should last you a long time.
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