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  • Giotto PP vs Giotto Evoluzione

    Hello CS Readers.

    I am going through that process of trying to find a new E-61 Machine and have arived at a little road block.  I am really impressed with the Giotto machines, love their form, function, size.  I reckon my wife could even be trained at using one (without burning milk all the way up the steam wand ahh).  My problem comes when looking at the two products side by side.  The specs are clear - Evoluzione gets a few extra goodies like rotary pump, cool extra brewing guage, provision for plumbed in (more??).   However there is a real jump in price to get to the Evoluzione model - and if I had unlimted finacial freedom to set up a really great coffee station on my bench, then I would definaltey be buying the Evo.

    But what I really want to know is.. in decending order of importance

    1) Is the extra coin worth it?
    2) Does this tranlate into a better coffee taste / experience

    The next two questions are a little topical given that I have just read the post relating to "importing coffee machine" - but PLEASE dont take this as being my intention.

    3) What extra work is done on the PP and Evoluzione in Australia to make them comply to local design rules

    4) Why is the price difference between the PP and Evoluzione higher here in Aus, than overseas (Italy-USA-Germany).  Again its not my intention to grey import - I just want to understand.  Is there additional work on the Evoluzione once imported?

    OK, I would really appreciate some help here, so feel free to commment

    Thanks very much.

  • #2
    Re: Giotto PP vs Giotto Evoluzione

    Originally posted by 504F565F4953545540080A0B0A3A0 link=1295479221/0#0 date=1295479221
    1) Is the extra coin worth it?
    Only you can decide. Rotary pumps and motors dont come cheap. If youre planning to plumb, you need to plan to spend accordingly.

    Originally posted by 504F565F4953545540080A0B0A3A0 link=1295479221/0#0 date=1295479221
    2) Does this tranlate into a better coffee taste / experience
    Possibly. The rotary pump does allow the machine to be configured slightly differently. I guess it depends whether you and your palate are up to the task.

    Originally posted by 504F565F4953545540080A0B0A3A0 link=1295479221/0#0 date=1295479221
    3) What extra work is done on the PP and Evoluzione in Australia to make them comply to local design rules
    See above for the fine tuning required to get the best from the machine with Australian coffee.

    ECA paid testing and compliance cost and spent $$$ doing it. Major changes to the wiring loom and switching mechanism were required to achieve Australian compliance.

    Originally posted by 504F565F4953545540080A0B0A3A0 link=1295479221/0#0 date=1295479221
    4) Why is the price difference between the PP and Evoluzione higher here in Aus, than overseas
    *sigh* Here we go again :

    See above and revisit the import thread. Its all been done to death before. You will also find that street price and our price are both lower.

    Now where was that brick wall  :-?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Giotto PP vs Giotto Evoluzione

      Originally posted by 372831382E343332276F6D6C6D5D0 link=1295479221/0#0 date=1295479221
      .... what I really want to know is.. in decending order of importance

      1) Is the extra coin worth it?
      2) Does this tranlate into a better coffee taste / experience

      3) What extra work is done on the PP and Evoluzione in Australia to make them comply to local design rules

      4) Why is the price difference between the PP and Evoluzione higher here in Aus, than overseas (Italy-USA-Germany).  Again its not my intention to grey import - I just want to understand.  Is there additional work on the Evoluzione once imported?
      ...........
      Another perspective, starting with the second question first:

      2) Given there is nothing wrong with the coffee taste / experience of the "simpler" machine to start with, only the individual can decide that.

      There is a problem in these forums, that readers are led on a kind of "intangible" chase for ever greater academic quality, leading prospective clients to be dead scared of not making the "right" choice now, or in the future coming to regret the choice they are making now. These forums seem to thrive on being fed ever more academic "technical excellence or improvements" to discuss, leaving people that bought last years model wishing they had just held out a little longer or paid more money to get this years upgraded model, and leaving them feeling that pang of regret instead of being happy with the great coffee machine they bought in the first place. Bottom line is.....can you actually taste the difference, or can you see and feel something that "does it better" for you. If so....buy the one you like better (if you can afford it), but remember someone else will have an opposing opinion, and next year a "bigger better" model will come along....

      A good example here on the most obvious difference between the two machines:

      Vibe pump and no water connection, VS rotary pump and water connection. There is no doubt the rotary pump is far smoother and quieter in operation. Its certainly a better  "quality of life". But is there any real discernible difference in the coffee that you can determine and is it worth the extra dollars to you?????...Up to you Im afraid.

      Does the water connection do anything for you? Only you can decide.

      Therefore, visit the reseller and look listen and learn and make up your own mind.

      1) If an individual believes he can taste a difference in the coffee, does that mean one is "better than" the other, or just "different"? Only an individual can then can decide whether the magnitude of the difference in price is "worth it" to him.

      3) Sorry but not relevant...just to know they comply with whatever is required in this market.

      4) Because we are here, inside the Australian local economy and subject to our own set of Australian rules, regulations and problems in addition to the cost of doing business inside this local economy, and including the extra impost from the act of getting the machines here from over there in numbers that are economic for someone to bother doing it, and having them sit in stock with requisite loss of use of working capital from the overdraft that keeps chalking up interest on the working capital used to pay for them.....waiting for them to sell.....at discounted prices to push them along.....

      The question really is irrelevant. Over here, where we are subject to all the "rules" that apply here, they cost what they cost.

      Hope that helps.

      Regardz,
      Attilio

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Giotto PP vs Giotto Evoluzione

        Its a bit humbling to be following the two previous posters :-[

        but here goes

        I have a Giotto PP. It is a great machine, I cant see any need for me to upgrade unless I wanted a plumbed in machine.

        Is the E better than the PP due to the rotary pump? I reckon I would be hard pressed to tell if Chris or Attilio were using it, and I definitely wouldnt be able to tell if I was the one pulling the shots, Im just not that good...... yet

        The decision between the two for me would be:
        Do I want/need the plumbed in convenience of not having to put water in the top every few days? Is that worth the difference in price?

        Can I even install a plumbed in machine in my kitchen that would meets the wifes aesthetic requirements?

        For me the difference in taste/quality of the espresso wouldnt be a big enough difference to factor into the buying equation. Plumbed in machine would be too much hassle, so I would just get the GPP and be happy with it, which is what I have done 8-)

        Put the price difference towards your grinder.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Giotto PP vs Giotto Evoluzione

          Hi UM and welcome to CS.

          I think Attilio makes a good point, we sometimes overthink these decisions a little too much, I know I have been guilty of the same.
          You state that your funds are not unlimited (like most of us) so for the ~$800 savings you’d make in buying the cheaper machine you could get yourself a high quality grinder to match, or maybe a roaster.

          I believe the simple answer, as is usually the case, is to arrange a visit to one of the sponsors and check them out in the metal. You can play, listen, feel, touch and taste from the machines you are comparing. There are many fine quality machines available in the $2-3K mark and all would be capable of producing an outstanding cup, assuming they have been correctly calibrated, quality beans, a good grinder and a competent operator.

          I would like a plumbed-in machine but do I need one? Definitely not for normal domestic use.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Giotto PP vs Giotto Evoluzione

            Thanks everyone for the valid comments.

            I appreciate what you have said and can confirm that I do (most of the time) overthink things.  Its part of my professional career to deal with control systems and optimisation of 1000s of varialbes to obtain something that works better, goes faster, or uses less - so naturally this spills over into other things.  Now I am turing this attention to my home coffee and want to make some real improvements over my Sunbeam EM6910 combo.

            I was interesed in the Giotto Evo mostly because of the quiet pump.  I have been getting stick at home lately for waking up the baby in the morning making my daily coffee, and when I heard the Giotto Evo at TalkCoffee (yes I have visited Chris and was very impressed) I thought this may be a great solution - wow its really quiet !  I have no real intention to plumb. So I guess in reality my question is answered since I dont think there is a grinder on my radar thats really quite anyways (Silenzio - another post perhaps?) - so the whole moring ritual will maintain its wonderful flare of grinding and pumping..its what gets me out of bed in the morning actually---cant wait to pour my moring coffee.

            Thanks again..

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Giotto PP vs Giotto Evoluzione

              Originally posted by 273821283E242322377F7D7C7D4D0 link=1295479221/5#5 date=1295824804
              So I guess in reality my question is answered since I dont think there is a grinder on my radar thats really quite anyways (Silenzio - another post perhaps?)
              Actually UM....

              Next time youre visiting Chris, have a listen to one or more of his big, slow revving conical grinders. Theyre pretty quiet compared to most other grinders.... 8-)

              Mal.

              Comment

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