Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ECM Giotto minor tweaks

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • ECM Giotto minor tweaks

    So I am the proud owner of a 2007 ECM Giotto Premium just arrived last week

    The outside looks spiffy, but I think the inside isnt so. I knew there was possibly some work to do, so Im prepared for it... I think!

    Firstly, the boiler takes a LONG time to get up to pressure - at least 2 hours before it finally got to 1 bar, and no further. After about 1/2 hour it was at 0.5 bar. While pulling hot water, extracting, and short steam bursts it barely budged from 1bar. I guess the upper limit is set by a pressurestat (which seems to be working) and the slow speed is due to scale?

    Secondly, the hot water seems to be quite dirty, but the group water is clean. I understand a HX doesnt take group water from the boiler at all? The hot water even seemed milky - but didnt smell so I dont think its from milk suck. It didnt clear after sitting, so its not the usual bubbly hot water tap syndrome.

    Theres also some residue in the cup from the hot wand - a bit of green and white particles like sand. Hopefully it was just dislodged sludge from the transportation? The cloudy water and particles reduced after about 4L of water, but its still there a bit.

    Should I remove the mushroom to see if it needs descaling, or just go ahead and do it?

    thanks for the advice

    Iain.

  • #2
    Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

    Hi Iain,

    Not hard to remove the mushroom to survey the scale. Though that green white sand you described certainly sounds like scale build up to me.

    The scale would be the first thing I would tackle before making any adjustments to the pressure stat or anything else. See how it behaves once any scale is under control.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

      Sounds also like it has a sticky gauge to me. If its hot in 30 min but the gauge isnt reacting, it will be scaled and most likely require replacement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

        I have had exactly the same problems with my Premium in its earlier days. I have had 1 gauge replaced during a service but the 2nd time got it serviced as soon as it started to happen, which included a de-scale. I suspect it was just the gauge not working due to scale build-up rather than the machine actually taking that long to get to pressure. Since those days I do very regular de-scales, and still try and get it serviced annually, rather than strip it myself.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

          Originally posted by 7A796A6A7D74180 link=1315922389/1#1 date=1315952400
          Not hard to remove the mushroom to survey the scale
          do I need some sort of thread tape or "locktight" to put this back? I can see a white band around the top of the thread which looks like nylon or something. The previous owner said he never descaled it since it "wasnt needed", and used filtered water. hm.

          Originally posted by 4C797473475B777E7E7D7D180 link=1315922389/2#2 date=1315952732
          and most likely require replacement
          thanks for the advice How hard would you rate this job? Does it just screw straight into the boiler?

          While Im at it the hot water drips very slowly - is that just a steam valve o-ring replacement for the hot water side?

          And the water tank seal sometimes doesnt fall into place exactly meaning occasionally it will leak when I take it out, until I pop it into place...

          uh-oh, a "project"

          Unfortunately Ill have to tackle these next weekend since Im busy till then

          Is there a "service manual" that lists all the parts to check, replace, lubricate, etc?

          thanks

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

            Sadly, it sounds like a bit of a train wreck Iain and a fair bit of work will be required to get it running well. 

            I presume its not ex. CS.

            Many people run their machines on "filtered water". Most have no idea that its not softened and no concept of scaling. Sounds like the original owner was one of them.

            I recommend that you take it to an authorised service agent and have all of these jobs done correctly. It will probably also need to be rewired to 2010 spec or you will be up for a control board at some point as well.

            Sounds to me like theres easily a good few hundred in work and parts there. I hope this was factored into your buy price.

            There is no service manual. Approved techs are appropriately skilled and can complete the required task efficiently and safely.

            Chris

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

              Originally posted by 07323F380C103C35353636530 link=1315922389/5#5 date=1315960166
              Sadly, it sounds like a bit of a train wreck Iain and a fair bit of work will be required to get it running well. 
              oh darn...

              I presume its not ex. CS.
              Actually yes... I quizzed and quizzed as much as I could, given that theres no shop within 2000kms where I could actually view one.  All the answers came up well... Do you think I should say something to the buyer? [edit: hehe thats me.. I meant seller]

              I recommend that you take it to an authorised service agent and have all of these jobs done correctly. It will probably also need to be rewired to 2010 spec or you will be up for a control board at some point as well.

              Sounds to me like theres easily a good few hundred in work and parts there. I hope this was factored into your buy price.
              Know of any in the NT? Otherwise Ill just have to send it to you.  It was semi-factored into the price - ie. it was a good price but not good enough given what Ive just discovered, and I didnt want to include a return air-fare just to view it

              Know of any in the NT? Otherwise Ill just have to send it to youThere is no service manual. Approved techs are appropriately skilled and can complete the required task efficiently and safely.
              gotchya.

              thanks

              Iain

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

                soak everything (boiler, all pipes, gauge, group etc) in citric acid for 2 days, rinse and repeat twice. then go from there.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

                  Originally posted by 76524858535A3B0 link=1315922389/7#7 date=1315984871
                  soak everything (boiler, all pipes, gauge, group etc) in citric acid for 2 days, rinse and repeat twice. then go from there.
                  I may be misinterpreting your post Mischa- but I would never soak the external finish of any part of the machine in Citric- or any other acid for that matter. As an internal descaler for assembled machines, Citric causes more problems than it solves.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

                    Originally posted by 4C797473475B777E7E7D7D180 link=1315922389/8#8 date=1315985538
                    Originally posted by 76524858535A3B0 link=1315922389/7#7 date=1315984871
                    soak everything (boiler, all pipes, gauge, group etc) in citric acid for 2 days, rinse and repeat twice. then go from there.
                    I may be misinterpreting your post Mischa- but I would never soak the external finish of any part of the machine in Citric- or any other acid for that matter. As an internal descaler for assembled machines, Citric causes more problems than it solves.

                    ah yes i meant internally everything.

                    Whats the issue with citric??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

                      Originally posted by 4D6973636861000 link=1315922389/9#9 date=1315987377
                      Whats the issue with citric??
                      Hi Mischa,

                      It lifts scale off in plaques which can then cause issues in places of restriction- gicleurs, solenoids et al. Commercial descalers use other acids to dissolve the rubbish.

                      If the bits are in a bucket, perhaps, but real descaler is cheap, so even then I wouldnt bother.

                      Chris

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

                        Originally posted by 5D686562564A666F6F6C6C090 link=1315922389/10#10 date=1315989452
                        Originally posted by 4D6973636861000 link=1315922389/9#9 date=1315987377
                        Whats the issue with citric??
                        Hi Mischa,

                        It lifts scale off in plaques which can then cause issues in places of restriction- gicleurs, solenoids et al. Commercial descalers use other acids to dissolve the rubbish.

                        If the bits are in a bucket, perhaps, but real descaler is cheap, so even then I wouldnt bother.

                        Chris

                        ah, i see your point, makes sense

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

                          Descaling sounds do-able, and I factored the control board into the near-future, but I wasnt planning on stripping the whole thing!

                          Do you think its bad enough to cut my losses? Doesnt seem that bad does it?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

                            Also I forgot to mention, the pump comes on for a second or two every 5 - 10 minutes when its not being used (but turned on). Is this bad?

                            I sincerely hope not!

                            thanks

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: ECM Giotto minor tweaks

                              re - pump turning on... check if theres any water leaks (drip tray, underneath the machine etc).

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X