Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

My bargain ECM Giotto find

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • My bargain ECM Giotto find

    So I recently sold my lovely NS Oscar right here on CS, to another CSer. The upgrade bug had bitten once again!

    I started with Sunbeam EM6910 & EM0480 grinder, then picked up a Mazzer Mini, then an NS Oscar, then a Gaggia Classic for work ($150!), and Id now like to introduce my latest find from the local classifieds:

    An ECM Giotto Premium. It was advertised for $500 or make an offer, there had to be something wrong with it. I went for a look, it was filthy, really bad, also an ex-gourmet food shop machine (I think). Dirty on the outside, PFs full of mould.

    Thanks to some CSs I PMd before looking at the machine, I got some tips on what to look for with a Giotto, especially an older ECM model.

    I asked to see it work, so we fired it up and it started to heat. The green light flickering away... burble burble. It got to temp and sat between 1.1 and 1.2 bar at idle. I tried HW tap, water! and pimp kicked in after about 1/2 cup. Tried steam, pretty dry. Tried the group, working. The stuff coming out of it was rank.

    I asked if I could open it up and inspect inside. A little dusty and a few small coffee drips, a small rust patch on the chassis where the water tank connect, minor. I listened for issues, checked wiring.

    There is a part missing off the front, the part bolts on to the chassis, and the drip tray sits on it. More on this later...

    I frowned and said "this is terrible.. it needs a lot of work, Ill give you $400 for it". They said no, very firm. I left paying $450.

    It came with both spout PFs, three baskets, and... a Reg Barber black powder-coated convex tamper! (score)

    I got it home, pulled it down, inspected it more, cleaned it up inside and out then started a de-scale as per the "how to descale an HX machine properly" thread right here on CS. Which uses the flooding the boiler technique by pulling the water level probe. It took around 2hrs in total and the scale wasnt that bad it seemed (only a little green, not too bad).

    Then I decided to back flush it. oh my god. I couldnt believe the sh!t that was coming out of this thing, check the pics! wow. five cafetto flushes and ten plain water flushes later, it was clear.

    I pulled my first shot, the pour was thick, and only a little too fast. The puck came out dry but was channeled. Looks like Ill need to change my technique! I pulled a second shot a bit finer on the mazzer, much slower and thinner pour. Probably too fine on the grind, no channelling (changed my dose technique), came out dry. I tried the shot but find it hard to taste right now as I have a sinus infection

    I steamed up some milk and added it to the shot, it seemed quite nice, but again, until Im feeling better.....

    Some observations:

    - The anti-vac hisses a little as it comes up to temp, and splutters a tiny little bit of water. is this normal, should I replace it? I can also hear that pin in the centre of it tinking as it moves around. Its minor, but still.

    - I need this missing part from the front that bolts on the front of the machine. The drip tray is currently resting on a little cork block I have, it works, but the machine isnt stable on the bench (sitting on three rubber legs, all of which have had it). Does that part have any feet on it also? Can I get one somewhere, or perhaps Ill need to make one.

    - It will still need a new group seal and shower screen. Its not leaking at all, it locks in at 6oclock nicely, and the screen is now fairly clean (see backflush pic), but still, I like new... and its cheap

    - It has a black and white wire to the p-stat. the black wire looks mostly like the other wires, but the white wire is a larger gauge (fatter), has it been rewired? (pics)

    - The lever to activate the brew leaks a little when actually brewing a shot. Rebuildable I presume.

    - The green light/indicator is dull and flickers a little. I see replacement ones are cheap

    So there you have it. I thought Id share my find, a $450 Giotto with an RB tamper. I guess that makes it a $350 giotto?

    All the pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/themandys/sets/72157627983428821/

    some attachments:










  • #2
    Re: My bragain ECM Giotto find

    1 - Yes, a bit of sputter and hiss is normal for the anti-vac valve

    2 - Check my website {this website wont let me post my own freakin URL!!!!!!!} .. The E-61 group should be disassembled and cleaned. I have a video of the cam lube step-by-step and another lesson (no video) of a full overhaul. For the condition of your machine I think it would benefit from a valve seal replacement on all three valves, replacement of the shaft seals,  and a thorough clean and lube.

    For a better understanding of the E-61 group in detail, download the full Vibiemme Domobar Double owners manual HERE.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

      Great find James. I agree with Randy G (good catchphrase there!) - you should strip down that group and give her a full overhaul - you might be surprised how much more black comes out, even though it runs clear on a backflush now (at least that was my experience when I stripped my HX, but not an e-61 so may be way off too).

      On 2nd thoughts you were ripped but Ill give you $400 so you can recoup most of your money. ;D

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My bragain ECM Giotto find

        Congrats - good score.  It sounds like it still works a treat even though it was mistreated

        A pity the drip tray support is missing. You might be able to make something up with a couple of pieces of angle iron that can bolt onto the mainframe.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

          Nice pickup James  8-)

          Wonder how they cleaned that p/f to get it back to raw brass all over?  :

          I have a brand spanking Giotto Premium Plus chassis which was for a project that never eventuated. This one has the integral drip tray which doesnt bend at the junction with the body. Drop me a line if you are interested in it. Youd also need 4 x commercial (new style) feet for it.

          Chris

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

            Okay, Ive pulled a second shot this arvo and nailed the grind, dose, tamp, the pour was very nice.

            anti-vac minor hiss is normal, ok good, its only for a very short time until the pin locks (pops up)

            I will look in to a group rebuild, can I leave the actual group attached to the machine/boiler? and just dismantle all the bits and bobs that go in it?

            I might also screw out the taps and re-grease them.

            Chris, new frame would be so lovely, but more $$$, and Id have to dismantle the entire machine for the transplant, urgh. Perhaps a full tear down would be good for it though!

            I cant believe how much shit came out of it when backflushing. Ive never seen anything like it.

            With the double-spout PF (the one thats been scrubbed back to brass), the hole in the bottom was tiny, I removed what seems like mountains of caked on old burnt coffee, it was really feral. Its all clean now however. I also notice that PF locks in around 4/5 instead of 6. Its "ears" are way worn compared to the single PF. Im happy using the single PF at this stage, Its only me drinking coffee unless I entertain. I might buy a new naked PF and transplant the double spout back to the single later.

            I might have to "make" a front drip tray/rest bracket. Can someone confirm that the part has rubber feet to stabilise the machine more? I have to be really gentle, and hold the machine with my left hand to unlock the PF after brewing, otherwise it will tip over on its single front rubber foot. boo.

            My milk texturing sucks badly on this machine, bulk steam, crap technique. I had the NS Oscar sussed really well, but this thing, different all over again.

            Still an epic find at this stage! Ill try source all the parts to fully rebuild the group, and do the showerscreen / group seal at the same time, Im sure some site sponsors have the stuff I need!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

              Originally posted by 0D262A22340A470 link=1321079232/5#5 date=1321085585
              Can someone confirm that the part has rubber feet to stabilise the machine more?

              Yes. Try this thread

              "Quick Search" is your friend. This was the first hit for a search of ecm giotto

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

                i read that whole thread previously, and none of the parts diagrams or information can confirm if the front support/tray has feet attached to it. I assume it does? two? meaning the giotto has a total of five rubber feet?

                cheers

                Originally posted by 606A7F6868677375060 link=1321079232/6#6 date=1321087310
                Originally posted by 0D262A22340A470 link=1321079232/5#5 date=1321085585
                Can someone confirm that the part has rubber feet to stabilise the machine more?

                Yes. Try this thread

                "Quick Search" is your friend. This was the first hit for a search of ecm giotto

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

                  Yes- 5 feet in total

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

                    The first page of the diagrams that Chris posted shows the  the rubber foot (part C449900843) held in place with a bolt (C319900412).
                    On my Premium plus, the drip tray has two rubber feet attached to the drip tray frame which is welded on to the chassis. Yours looked like it might have been bolted on. Also see Erics reply #37. Page 3 of that file shows the same parts.

                    If your Giotto already has 3 feet then I think your guess of a total of 5 is correct. Mine only has 4 feet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

                      Hi JamesM,

                      I got my ECM Giotto at a bargain price too. check the thread below. lots on getting this machine up to scratch. I wont tell u how much I got mine for...

                      http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1315922389/50

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

                        aah yes, I did read that thread, quite a lot of information in there actually!

                        What are the chances you could send me some photos and measurements for the metal tray that bolts on the front of the machine (the drip tray holder), which mine is missing? Ill look at making one if I can get the size, etc.

                        Originally posted by 5B4947514D280 link=1321079232/10#10 date=1321094120
                        Hi JamesM,

                        I got my ECM Giotto at a bargain price too.  check the thread below.  lots on getting this machine up to scratch.  I wont tell u how much I got mine for...

                        http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1315922389/50

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

                          Thanks mate, yeah mine has the two bolts and washers still in the front of the chassis, and a faint mark of where a tray once bolted on the front. I did ask the seller if they had it, they didnt know much about the machine. (so no)

                          Looks like a simple rectangular tray that bolts on the front, with two threaded holes for two rubber feet. The drip tray then slides on to it, or sits in it (I assume).

                          At the moment, I have the drip tray resting on a cork block which is perfect, but it doesnt do anything for the stability of the machine, it really needs the extra feet and support

                          cheers!

                          Originally posted by 73796C7B7B746066150 link=1321079232/9#9 date=1321090205
                          The first page of the diagrams that Chris posted shows the  the rubber foot (part C449900843) held in place with a bolt (C319900412).
                          On my Premium plus, the drip tray has two rubber feet attached to the drip tray frame which is welded on to the chassis. Yours looked like it might have been bolted on. Also see Erics reply #37. Page 3 of that file shows the same parts.

                          If your Giotto already has 3 feet then I think your guess of a total of 5 is correct. Mine only has 4 feet

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

                            Originally posted by 19323E36201E530 link=1321079232/11#11 date=1321098114
                            What are the chances you could send me some photos and measurements for the metal tray that bolts on the front of the machine (the drip tray holder), which mine is missing? Ill look at making one if I can get the size, etc.
                            244mm wide, 130mm deep, 30mm high and 1.1mm thick steel. real solid piece of tray. Oh, yes, theres another brace that runs from the front of this tray to the middle of the machine bracing the entire front, so its not just the two bolts that hold it in place. this is riveted extensively on each side.

                            here are the photos as requested.





                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My bargain ECM Giotto find

                              Note saoye has "non standard" feet from a commercial oven or something of a similar size to the Giotto

                              I would only add that the drip tray engulfs the black tray underneath it by resting on some proud rubber rivets on the side.

                              Also mine doesnt have the bracket shown above, only two bolts. Oh, and I just noticed my feet are halfway back the drip tray, not at the front. And I have the fifth leg whereas saoye doesnt

                              I reckon you could cut a piece of steel and bend the sides up to make a box...

                              HTH!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X