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E61 idle temp?

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  • #16
    Re: E61 idle temp?

    Hmm ?
    I suspect yours is programmed with an offset reading since boiler temp is usually several degrees above brew (Scace ) temps . Especially if there is no "offset table" in the manual.
    Offset changes should be operator adjustable since there is some evidence that this can /will change depending on individual m/c environments. Making changes to an offset on most PIDs is no more complex than changing the set point in the menu system..but i dont know your specific model.
    You may like to read up on the debate about offset calibration pros & cons.
    1st line equipment has a good article to start off.
    Originally posted by 4B6775737267060 link=1339112093/14#14 date=1340326219
    Main thing is that since bumping up the brew to 93°C I have been enjoying the coffee more than before Grin
    And that is the bottom line..Taste.

    Originally posted by 4B6775737267060 link=1339112093/14#14 date=1340326219
    As an aside when I set the temp to 94°C it made awful coffee
    .... but that would worry me if such a small temp change made a change in taste from good to "awful" . :-/

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    • #17
      Re: E61 idle temp?

      Originally posted by 79777E757F2E291B0 link=1339112093/15#15 date=1340330748
      Hmm ?
                I  suspect yours is programmed with an offset reading since boiler temp is usually several degrees above brew (Scace ) temps . Especially if there is no "offset table" in the manual.
      Offset changes should be operator adjustable since there is some evidence that this can /will change depending on individual m/c environments. Making changes to an offset on most PIDs is no more complex than changing the set point in the menu system..but i dont know your specific model.
      You may like to read up on the debate about offset calibration pros & cons.
      1st line equipment has a good article  to start off.
      Originally posted by 4B6775737267060 link=1339112093/14#14 date=1340326219
      Main thing is that since bumping up the brew to 93°C I have been enjoying the coffee more than before  Grin
      And that is the bottom line..Taste.

      Originally posted by 4B6775737267060 link=1339112093/14#14 date=1340326219
      As an aside when I set the temp to 94°C it made awful coffee
      .... but that would worry me if such a small temp change made a change in taste from good to "awful" .  :-/

      Ill definitely have to have a look for that article that you mentioned. As far as I know the PID unit in my machine (Giove II) is a Gicar unit which seems to have been used by a few other machines as well. The manual that came with the machine was basic at best and only briefly went over the PID. At the moment I have misplaced that manual anyway, so there might have been a bit more in it than I recall.

      As for the 1 deg making such a big change, I am only at the start of my learning curve and it is also highly likely that I changed (read wasnt consistent enough) something else. I will have to go back and try to change the temp again at some point.

      I would have to agree with you that there would have to be an offset somewhere as I would fully expect some thermal loss between the boiler and the group. How much is what im unsure about.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: E61 idle temp?

        As the person that most probably set up your machine, I can tell you that there is an offset in the PID for the brew boiler, but you do NOT need to be changing it! Thats why we bench test a machine prior to sale and make a small adjustment to the offset, as the temperature variance through the components changes from machine to machine.

        There may well be a small variance of a couple of degrees between the indicated brew boiler temp. and the temperature measured at the puck due factors beyond our control (think usage patterns, ambient temperature, flushes, etc etc.), but this is as good as it gets when you have a group that is passively heated.

        If you want +/- less than 2 degrees C. temperature control at the group both during and between extractions, time to go saturated. Also, you better check that your thermometer calibration certificate is still valid 

        I feel like were getting into silly territory here though - its all very well to debate these things, but let the taste be your guide. Numbers are useful, but secondary.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: E61 idle temp?

          Rick, sorry if my questions or comments came across as negative or offensive.  I am very happy with both the machine I purchased (Giove II) and 9 bar who sold me the machine and would (and have been) happily recommend them both.

          I just like to know a little about why things are the way they are and the theory behind things.  I have no desire to play with the PIDs finer settings.  From using the group head thermometer I was actually quite happy, that while pouring the shot, that the temps were very close to what the PID displayed.  As you can see from my posts above the group head thermometer was withing +/-1 deg of the PID setting.  The thermometer that I am using is by no means a finely calibrated piece of equipement (Eric does send his measurement with it, and mine was apparantly read a touch high by his measurement).  My initial question were to do with the temp that the group was idling at, as I thought that the E-61 was suppose to idle hot and require a cooling flush, but I have since found out (I actually think it was your comment that pointed me in that direction )that that happens mainly (only?) with Hx machines and not with a dual boiler.  It makes sense now that I think about it but at the time I must have been having a blonde moment.  I would also suspect that the groups temperature varies as only the top chamber is heated by the water from the boiler and the rest of the group has to be heated by conduction from that point.

          It took me me a couple of months to be willing to change the temp on my brew boiler and I am happy that the small nudge up a couple of degrees has improved the coffee for me.  My taste buds are not as well developed as many of the people here, but I have been happy to have reduced the number of sour shots that im getting.  As for the rest of the shots that are not quite right, I am the first to admit that the answer most likely lies on this side of the pf handle  ;D

          Its after 3 pm now, so time to go and practice again :P  Coffee break time

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: E61 idle temp?

            Originally posted by 684456505144250 link=1339112093/18#18 date=1340341944
            Rick, sorry if my questions or comments came across as negative or offensive. 
            Not at all! That post was written in haste and on reflection comes across as a little snarky. That wasnt my intention, just trying to get across that all these parameters have been adjusted to the best of our experience at the workshop prior to the machine entering service.

            Thats not to say that you shouldnt attempt to explore the various options that the PID makes possible - after all whats the point of paying for that adjustability and never using it!

            Comment

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