Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

[saoye]

Ok, so Ive searched the forum for a comparison of the two and have not found a topic that is relevant to what Im after. 

Im in a bit of a predicament...a good predicament in that I have to choose between one or the other.  I currently have the ECM Giotto and am very happy with its function and form.  Very familiar with the machine now and really quite comfortable where I am.  However, I have available to me a Faema compact S1 that needs some work.  Not being one to shy from bringing something back to life, I am quite sure I can resurrect this Faema compact S1.

Having said that I will eventually be faced with a very serious question.  Which one to keep.  I already have a travel machine (Lelit Combi) that sits happily in my office until my next holiday.  I cannot justify having two home machines...two grinders maybe...

I need some feedback on what others may think and ideally if youve owned either one or both.  Let me know your thoughts on which I should keep.  Thanks!    (also not sure if this fits in the pointy end or the $3k plus range machines - I think it may creep into the $3k plus...Ill let a mod deal with that appropriately.)

[artman]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

I have the E98 A1 version of the Faema, its a rotary pump (in built tank or plumbed) and volumetric.

Its built like a tank. I love its refinement and low noise due to the pump, but the cooling flushes are a bit of a pain. My understanding not much can be done to resolve this.

I often think about swapping for a traditional E61 machine, mainly as they are a bit smaller and more blingy, but also due to the properly calibrated ones running at the right temp (from the stuff I have read here).

It would be good to see a comparison of these two if you end up getting it.

Cheers

[saoye]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

Hi artman, I still remember you offering for a swap when I just got my Giotto

I like the "commercialness" of the Faema/la cimbali but I do like the flashiness of the Giotto. It may be more suited for the home being a centre piece etc. The faema width wise is no wider at its widest in fact the giotto is a little wider with its "hips". Depth and height wise there are a fair difference in the Faema being larger.

Regarding the cooling flush of the faema, can it not be "tweaked" like the Giotto to optimise the brew pressure and boiler pressure? I know after my "tweaking" Im doing much smaller cooling flushes on the Giotto.

[artman]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

Oh yeah, I do recall having a chat along those lines, your memory is better than mine!! It seems to be the CS way, one is always wanting to see what another machine will be like!! [smiley=cheesy.gif]

I think the main reason the Faemas look larger to the normal E61s, is due to the top tray extending forward over the group, giving it much more presence.  The benefit of this though is the massive warming tray up top.  I have 9 cups, a PF, brush, a couple of espresso cups, tamper, basket all sitting on the tray!  The S1s look a bit narrower in some pics, maybe its just an optical illusion?  The A1 is listed as 371mm wide, 581 tall, 508 deep, and a svelte 49kg....

I dont believe the brew temp can be tweaked as per the E61 style machines that run a thermosyphon type setup.  There doesnt look like anything can be tweaked apart from boiler pressure and level.  I hope someone can tell me I am wrong.

I have lowered the boiler pressure but to little effect.  The heat exchanger looks like a simple cylinder that partially sits in the boiler water (part 700236 below), so I guess the boiler water level will effect the temp inside the HX tube.  I havent played around with the level too much, its at the lower end now, if I raise it I get more wet steam as the steam is not taken from the top of the boiler for some reason, but off the side, a bit down from the top.



I will be comparing the A1 to the Breville DB soon, I am really curious to see the outcome in espresso taste. In milk texturing I reckon the BDB trumps the A1, its slower but amazingly easy to get perfect microfoam.

Cheers

[Adam1982]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

I have the Faema Compact S1. I agree with Artman, these machine are built like a tank.

Milk Texturing is difficult to get right, mainly due to the 4 hole tip and the pressure that comes out.

After I swapped my 4 hole tip for a 2 hole things still went very very quickly, but the results were a lot better.

Artman, I am curious to know - do you use the double basket exclusively?

I have noticed a massive difference in taste/quality and crema of the resulting shot when comparing the double basket to the single.

[artman]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

I have the 4 hole steam tip, original holes were 2mm in diameter. I filled them in and redrilled all 4 holes to 1mm diameter (quarter of the area) and this made a huge difference to the end result. Its still quick to steam, but I can manage ok milk most the time and once in a while a ripper result (following KKTOs method).

I always use a double ridgeless Synesso basket, I bought this with a matching Pullman tamper, and I also always use the naked PF. The espresso shots are always very yummy, only once in a blue moon something goes not quite right, but even then they are ok in taste.

Never even tried the single basket, most people struggle to get decent shots with it. I use a the double shot as the base for all coffees, and usually stop it short of 60ml.

Cheers

[saoye]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

Just picked up the machine. Its a Faema E98 Compact S1 April 2007 model. Switched the power on and everything lights up! Good sign. Really in need of a good clean but other than the external coffee oil grime its in good condition. I suspect its a blown element as the seller says its their parents machine and they had it turned on without filling the water. Should be pretty easy to check. comes with two portafilters, single and double, the plastic tamper and plastic blind basket, bonus cleaning brush, art of coffee making book, and an extra 4 hole steam tip...I was kinda hoping it was a two hole steam tip but I really cannot complain for the price.

Looking at this machine its not exactly "pretty" like a Giotto. Ill have to clean it up, get it working and then make a comparison.

[saoye]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

Here it is...before cleaning. Any thoughts on the condition? pretty dirty for only 5 years old really.

[artman]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

Looks quite decent.  You can easily take of the side/front/rear/top panels to get a good look inside (machine unplugged of course). The electronics should be under the drip tray under a panel.

Likewise you can easily remove the collar, shower screen distribution disc for a look/clean.

I got a replacement softener for the suction hose (not the same type), a generic one from coffee-a-roma. Interestingly when I disected the original resin softener the balls inside were much smaller than the replacement filter.

What is the other hose with the black thing?

Cheers


Cheers

[Bill]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

I suspect its a blown element

This machine has a circuit breaker that cuts power to the element if it gets too hot (eg. if water level was too low). So there is probably nothing wrong with the element - just reset the circuit breaker. The circuit breaker is under the right-hand side panel, near the front. Youll see a little red button - if it has tripped, you just need to press that button until it clicks and you should have power again.

[Bill]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

What is the other hose with the black thing?

Its for the low water level cut-out. If water tank is too low it cuts power to the pump.

[saoye]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

This machine has a circuit breaker that cuts power to the element if it gets too hot (eg. if water level was too low). So there is probably nothing wrong with the element - just reset the circuit breaker.

Music to my ears ;D

[saoye]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

Well, Ive opened her up and its clean as a whistle inside. Definitely can see that its only 5 years old. Unfortunately though, it wasnt the circuit breaker as the breaker was not tripped. That would have been a simple fix. Then again, they never specifically said what was wrong with it.
Got to say theres a lot more in the Faema than compared to the inside of a Giotto. Im liking the "commercial" build of the Faema.

I notice the green ball thing is indicating a full boiler above the max level and I can see that it is floating in water.

Another note, the water tank is stainless steel. I guess its actually a good thing but so used to a plastic water tank. Some indication of calcium in the filter of the hot water wand, other than that, cant see anything wrong until I fill it with water and fire her up.

[Adam1982]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

Youll love this machine saoye.

I have the S1 and it is 10 years old, exactly the same as yours mine was clean as a whistle as well.

I would change out the water filter, theyre cheap and you can buy them from Bombora. These machines are really easy to work on as well.

[saoye]

Re: Faema Compact S1 vs ECM Giotto Premium

All electricals and pump seems to work and indicators as well.  Only thing that doesnt seem to work is the element.  When I press boiler fill button water immediately flow out from the anti vac valve at the top of the boiler. The green ball seem to never come down from the very top of the viewing glass no matter how much I let the water out of the group head.  Should the boiler be that full?  Turned the dial to 2 and does not heat up.  If the machine cannot blow an element than what could it be?  How hard shoul I be pressing the circuit breaker switch because I dont think its tripped.