Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What are my lever options..

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I am happy to agree there are going to be some differences in the character of the resulting coffee between domestic and commercial sized machines, however if we eliminate machines from the mix that I would class as straight out "toys", any discernible difference in the character of the coffees produced by domestic sized VS machines using commercial sized groups, will in the main be attributable to the different sized coffee filters used.

    That is, the filter in a domestic size machine is smaller (holds less grinds) than a commercial sized (58mm) filter ergo you cant help getting a difference in the coffees of you brew to the same sized volume in the cup.

    I measured the weight capacity of grinds in the double filter a good domestic lever machine I have in the showroom, as opposed to the weight capacity of a commercial 58 mm double filter. The domestic held around 15 grams, as opposed to somewhere around 19 grams in the commercial.....say the domestic holds around 3/4 of the full capacity of the commercial.

    If you were to brew "standard" 30 ml espressos with your commercial machine using 19 grams of grinds, would that not be much the same as brewing 22 ml ristrettos using the domestic machine with 15 gram of grinds?

    And unless you have one of each of the machines running side by side, how could you compare the character of the resulting brews to say whether one is "better" (for whatever reason) than the other, and would it in the end for domestic clients be of any real significance (as most of the coffees run out are destined for milk coffee)?

    A lot of comparisons and reports in these forums are fought on equipment specification, therefore a machine with a commercial type group is considered to be "better" than one with a domestic size group. But is it not the result from the total package that counts?

    A question then for those that have both types of machine on the bench: If you take into consideration the differing quantity of grinds in each coffee filter, and you therefore adjust the volume of liquid so it is comparative........is the difference between the coffees / machines significant? And if the domestic costs say less than 2 thou, but the commercial costs in excess of 3 thou, is any difference still significant?

    Comment


    • #17
      I agree with this. There is another factor- on a machine like the Ponte Vecchio- the cylinder is 45mm wide as opposed to 58mm on a commercial group- this means that even though the spring is considerably less powerful- the smaller diameter of the 'water column' in the piston chamber means the weaker spring can create a comparable pressure per square inch at the puck... maybe not quite as high as a commercial group but high enough to get into the awesome espresso zone...

      having used commercial and domestic levers extensively I am happy to admit that they are quite different in the cup- but I do not accept that the commercial lever is necessarily better. It is a matter of taste if you ask me. You can get superb world class espresso from a so called 'toy' lever... and as you say- there is more to a machine than just coffee- the commercial leer really is not for everyone- they are designed for heavy use environments and are heavy duty beasts...

      Comment


      • #18
        Hi all

        I have a Ponte Vechio Lusso (from Sorentina Coffee) and a La Pavoni Europiccola. The Ponte Vecchio espresso is excellent, the machine does not overheat like the Pavoni. I can keep the Ponte Vecchio on for hours if I wish. The Pavoni though produces a slightly sweeter shot I think but it's a one off; you can't churn out a few. The Ponte Vecchio will do several if the boiler is full and they will come out the same - good repeatability

        Yet I still yearn for a lever with a 58 mm portafilter - why? It gives me more coffee in my cup. With the Ponte I use a small cup and make a small macchiato for my wife as that suits what a 42 mm portfilter produces. I have a Bezera Domus Galatea and whit tat the wife gets a full sized cup flat white. Guests usually want a full cup too and the Ponte and the Pavoni are just a bit short for that.

        If its just for you and one other a Ponte Vecchio is excellent and a good starting point for a lever machine. For many guests and a full cup you would need a 58mm size lever.

        Mike

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Jimmytheboot View Post
          From what Ive read on other forums and seen in videos the pump/opv will supply 9 bar to the puck if you hold the lever down long enough, so it could be used for the shot.
          ?? An owner may like to clear this up but the Pump to my understanding was set to deliver 3 bar Pre Infusion and not 9 bar (can't think of any idea why it would be near 9 bar).

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by speleomike View Post
            Yet I still yearn for a lever with a 58 mm portafilter - why?
            Hi Mike,

            I reckon if you ever get the opportunity to try the deep 55 on the Pompeii, you may change your mind.

            Agreed that PV is a terrific starting point. Gotta love a great lever!

            Chris

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by beanflying View Post
              (can't think of any idea why it would be near 9 bar).
              Same pump+opv as other bezzera vibe pump machines?

              Strega brew pressure test - YouTube

              Comment


              • #22
                yep, if you leave the lever down the pump will continue to pressurise and you can pull a shot as if it were a pump machine.

                Another distinction between domestic and commercial-sized levers is temperature stability due to the mass of metal in the group. People often talk about machines with commercial-sized groups being more 'forgiving', and this has alot to do with the temperature rise and fall being comparatively slower, and once the group is at it's sweet spot it will happily pull superb espresso more or less continuously, which is a quality that is very hard to replicate in a small machine. The PV Lusso has a very good reputation in that regard though. Bezzera have gone one step further with the Strega, as I think it uses the same cartridge heater setup as the BZ07 to warm the group up actively - instead of having to flush a load of water through it as is the normal process with a commercial lever.

                Comment


                • #23
                  actually the Achille machine I am testing now does not require a warming flush- the group (and boiler) heats up to temp in around 20 minutes (17 with a very small flush). The group is heated via a passive thermosyphon connection to the boiler. Machine like the Gaggia levers which use a 'dipper' group would require a warming flush I guess. I don't know but I assume the Strega is a dipper- but obviates the need for a warming flush via the electric heater installed into the group?

                  I am surprised if the pump on the strega really works at 9 Bar? How do they stop the pressure in the boiler from rising? Is the group disconnected from the boiler when the lever is down and the pump on? Is it some type of HX system?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The Strega uses an HX system to fill the lever cylinder:

                    Bezzera Strega - Second Look - Review • Home-Barista.com

                    Sniff

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I've had a strega for a few weeks now and love it. It's hard to make bad coffee.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I've had an MCal for maybe 3 months now, loving it, consistent quality pour once you have the beast sussed out..
                        If I had my time again I'd consider the twin PV Lusso, only because I'm a tad lazy and doing all the grinding etc at the same time appeals, and less wait between pours.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I have a Londinium L-I on order. It should arrive in a couple of weeks or so. It is the L-I tanked version w/plumb-in kit. So I should be able to add a few points to the entire process once I can get to pulling shots :-)

                          I will comparing this to my GS/3 MP and to it's predecessor, a Rocket R-58. It should be interesting, stay tuned!

                          Stephen

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Londinium L-I

                            I noticed that the video of the L-I in operation, in Mr. Gunson's explanation of the machine LONDINIUM I lever espresso machine on Vimeo, shows a nice bottomless portafilter extraction. I hope to get such nice extractions without to much fiddling around and if the coffee gods are with me I should know in a couple of weeks

                            Stephen

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Nearly all of the shots that I have seen so far look like gushers to me....a good tightening of the grind would do wonders..

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hey all I got an '88 Cremina off eBay for $730, but it was from the US so 110v. Got a step down transformer. That leads to my next question which I think I'll just start a new thread for..

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X