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Upgraditis .............down to the final few

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  • #16
    ...using the Alex Duetto (rotary pump) if you want to preinfuse you have to actuate the pump cam lever 'til it clicks then elevate it a bit more but before the pump cuts in. This will allow internal line
    pressure water out of the group. When your first drip appears ( or the 'ring' with a naked) pull the
    lever fully up and pour your shot.
    ?? why do you feel this is necessary ?
    The E61 is designed to pre-infuse, even with a Rotary pump. !

    Comment


    • #17
      If I want an 8 second pre infusion. I didn't say it was necessary but meant to convey that
      if you want the same preinfuse time as the vibe in the Isomac.
      The difference using the technique above, to just a straight actuation of the pump cam lever,
      is 3 seconds but can be made longer if you want.
      The difference is in the cup!
      Sorry for not making it clearer. I can see your confusion.
      I like to play with my machine and explore all that it can do! 8-o
      Post 15 edited with clearer language. ;-)

      Comment


      • #18
        Thanks again all for your replies. I really appreciate all the thoughts as I fine tune my choice.

        The short list I have feels solid and now I just need to get in and see the machines. The current favourite is the bezzera but I'll stay open minded until I've seen it in person ( so to speak).

        Based on Chris's input, the evo might also be worth a look. Should I think of it as a quieter Giotto or is the difference more than that.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by double_shot View Post
          Thanks again all for your replies. I really appreciate all the thoughts as I fine tune my choice.

          The short list I have feels solid and now I just need to get in and see the machines. The current favourite is the bezzera but I'll stay open minded until I've seen it in person ( so to speak).

          Based on Chris's input, the evo might also be worth a look. Should I think of it as a quieter Giotto or is the difference more than that.
          Quieter Giotto with plumbility if you so desire.......I think that is the only differences

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          • #20
            Originally posted by blend52 View Post
            ?? why do you feel this is necessary ?
            The E61 is designed to pre-infuse, even with a Rotary pump. !
            Thanks again all for the rich high quality feedback. Chris's comments above on the Rocket Evo really got me thinking but as I explore this and other rotary pump options, some questions emerge which I can't find clear answers to and they relate to this comment by blend52 and Chokkidog above.

            From what I read, the E61 naturally facilitates a level of preinfusion regardless of pump type. The vibe pump provides additional preinfusion as it builds up pressure more slowly. On the rotary, you can manipulate the preinfusion by opening the valves exposing he coffee to line pressure before you flick the switch to brew. My first check in is to see whether I have interpreted all of this correctly.

            My next questions stems from the fact that I will only be able to go with a "tanked" option and not plumbed in. If my understanding above is correct, then ill be forgoing preinfusion flexibility on any rotary option that I consider. Is this really going to be an issue? Will I be forgoing an option that could vary what comes through in the cup? Or am I over thinking this and just need to focus on the right grind and dose and then the results will come?

            Cheers

            DS

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            • #21
              Hi DS,

              You will get preinfusion anyway- as it's part of the design of the e-61 group.

              Once plumbed, you also have line pressure to play with. Some play with extra preinfusion by lifting the lever to the centre and then letting line pressure do the rest.

              Cheers

              Chris

              Comment


              • #22
                Hi DS,

                My comments were not meant to add confusion about preinfusion!! Your interpretation is correct except you will be able to manipulate
                times with a tanked version as there is internal pressure at the group whether it is plumbed or not.
                It is simply an added tweak to your arsenal when it comes to extraction. I discovered the tweak
                when I asked a question about the different standard preinfusion times ( 5 and 8 seconds rotary/vibe)
                between the two pump types and machines that I had. Don't let side issues such as this colour your decision making!
                You may well find that if you put two different machines side by side, one rotary one vibe, that the preinfusion times will
                be different to what I had on my two machines.
                It's more a lead into playing around, thinking outside the square and getting the most from your coffee journey.

                Cheers.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I just got my hands on a fairly cheap Domobar Super Lever. It was used as a house machine making a few coffees a day I also have a very handy local business that re-polished my extremely scratched up BZ35 to brand new condition, because I saved so much on the purchase I'll get the whole thing totally re-polished and I'll spend some time descaling it thoroughly to bring it back to it's newer days. As I have done a previous coffee machine rebuild I am confident that the money I saved in the purchase as compared to a new machine will pay for any spare parts that I may need in the near future as it is a couple years old.

                  I was in the exact same boat as you are, totally unsure on what I wanted to purchase. My shortlist was almost identical except I had the Domobar in there, I initially wanted a plumbed in machine like the ECM or Evoluzione but I just purchased the first 2nd hand machine that popped up on my list. Now if I am not happy with the Domobar I'm confident I'll get an identical sale price as to what I paid then I can cross it off my list

                  I know this probably isn't the ideal way to go about it but if I purchased the wrong machine I would be totally devastated.

                  I'm not recommending to you to do this, I'm just sharing. I wouldn't recommend this because if you haven't got any knowledge of the internals you could find yourself in a pickle. If an ECM came up for sale 2nd hand I would most definately purchase it, clean it up and compare the 2 side by side for a month or so and sell of the one I don't want


                  Also a little bit curious as to why the Domobar isn't on your list? It's a great looking machine has all the capabilities of the machines you have mentioned and is very highly regarded around here. Thoughts?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hi all and thanks again to those that have taken the time to post. It's been tremendously helpful. Before I head in for the hands on review of the machines, there's one more variable I'd like to explore with this community. During the most recent home board meeting, the financial controller (and the CEO if I'm truly honest) has said that is ok to spend a few hundred more on a volumetric machine. Not sure if this is good or bad.

                    Her rationale is that she doesn't want to be watching shots - just push the button. There's real value in that for her. My thoughts are that if I have everything set up right and ensure her workflow is consistent, most times the coffee will be great. Whilst I can't say I'm fully on board, I wanted to explore this further.

                    My question is whether there's a fundamental difference in the way the E61 functions if its operated electronically or mechanically via the lever and will that have an effect on the quality of the extraction. To be specific if it helps, the machine in mind is the ecm elektronika.

                    Cheers

                    DS

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by brendogs View Post
                      Also a little bit curious as to why the Domobar isn't on your list? It's a great looking machine has all the capabilities of the machines you have mentioned and is very highly regarded around here. Thoughts?
                      Hey brendogs, thanks for your post. It was provocative. In answer to your question re the Domobar, I haven't seen one in the flesh but the images I have seen just don't do it for me. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

                      Cheers

                      DS

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hi Double Shot - sorry to hijack your thread, but I'm in the same boat as you. From speaking/reading around the ECM has some advantages over the Rocket (the other main one I was looking at). Levers for steam (though this is a preference I imagine). Pressure gauge dials easier to see at the top of the machine (vs the Rocket, at the bottom), and a bigger drip tray(I think) than the Rocket. Only advantage (non-whats-in -the cup-wise) is that the Rocket has nicer hips. I'm curious to see how you go, I'm leaning to the ECM atm. I imagine a volumetric will be less reliable than a straight lever (more electronics), but I can see the advantage you speak of

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Hi DS,

                          There is nothing wrong with volumetric machines, it's more a style of operation choice.
                          My neighbours have a volumetric single group, in a word; boring.
                          The machine, with it's touch pad also has a very different look but the coffee is fine, very fine, after all, it's my roast!;-)
                          Still, it's about the grind, dose and tamp and will always be that way. A volumetric will have no bearing on the quality
                          of the coffee from incorrect technique, you'll just get 30mls of it, every time.

                          There are ways around your wife's concerns.
                          1. A shot timer.
                          2. A shot timer, coupled with a latte glass such as a Libbey Duratuff Endeavour 207 ml (7 oz no. 15709)
                          http://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-co...tml#post490632 see post no. 112
                          You'll see that it has a moulding around the lower part of the glass. It's right at 30mls!
                          3. After a while, you both will come to recognise what is a good pour just from seeing how it emerges from the p/f.
                          Some will be better than others but....... hey! When you're in the groove things will go pretty well. You'll still sink some shots
                          but once again you'll still sink shots (say that 10x really fast :-o) from a volumetric.
                          4. Are things that busy that 25 secs is too long for a Zen coffee moment? :-) I'll ask but it's not for me to answer............

                          Hopefully, some one else with a better answer will post but that's my take on it, for home.
                          My opinion only, a choice like this is too personal for anyone else to answer.

                          cheers.
                          Last edited by chokkidog; 6 February 2013, 10:15 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi Chokkidog et al,

                            thanks again. It sounds like I have nothing to worry about with the machines on the list, it just comes down to the one that I like the most. I am hoping to get into one of our sponsors tomorrow afternoon and have a good look at these machines. I have all sorts of thoughts and points of view but once I get see the actual machines, I hope that one just stands out for me. Pretty sure that the grinder will be the Macap M4D

                            Cheers

                            Peter

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by double_shot View Post
                              Hi all and thanks again to those that have taken the time to post. It's been tremendously helpful. Before I head in for the hands on review of the machines, there's one more variable I'd like to explore with this community. During the most recent home board meeting, the financial controller (and the CEO if I'm truly honest) has said that is ok to spend a few hundred more on a volumetric machine. Not sure if this is good or bad.

                              Her rationale is that she doesn't want to be watching shots - just push the button. There's real value in that for her. My thoughts are that if I have everything set up right and ensure her workflow is consistent, most times the coffee will be great. Whilst I can't say I'm fully on board, I wanted to explore this further.

                              My question is whether there's a fundamental difference in the way the E61 functions if its operated electronically or mechanically via the lever and will that have an effect on the quality of the extraction. To be specific if it helps, the machine in mind is the ecm elektronika.

                              Cheers

                              DS
                              G'Day DS, from one who's been in a similar position.
                              Bought a Bezzera Galatea and went through the process of teaching SWMBO how to operate it, no great drama, it's an easy machine to use.
                              About a fortnight later she came home from a shopping expedition with a container of instant, when I asked the question she told me she couldn't be bothered with all of the stuffing around and the brand of instant she had chosen was almost as good as that produced by the Bezzera, she hasn't used the machine since.
                              However she still enjoys a nightly cappuccino (made by me) and claims it beats anything produced by most cafe's hands down.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                                G'Day DS, from one who's been in a similar position.
                                Bought a Bezzera Galatea and went through the process of teaching SWMBO how to operate it, no great drama, it's an easy machine to use.
                                About a fortnight later she came home from a shopping expedition with a container of instant, when I asked the question she told me she couldn't be bothered with all of the stuffing around and the brand of instant she had chosen was almost as good as that produced by the Bezzera, she hasn't used the machine since.
                                However she still enjoys a nightly cappuccino (made by me) and claims it beats anything produced by most cafe's hands down.
                                Yep, sounds like female logic at work :-) :-)...........

                                Steve

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