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Rocket Giotto Premium Plus - Troubleshooting

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  • TC
    replied
    Hooley dooley. I think it's time your technician looked for a new job. I suspect his sausage stuffer must been out of action that day!

    If you can hear the pump, in all likelihood, there is nothing wrong with your machine. Clean the brass probe and screw in the tank coupling- visible in the base of the machine when you remove the tank. Your machine senses the presence of water by conductivity across these probes and if the water is too pure (distilled or very heavily filtered), the machine will rightly think it has no water.

    If these fail, best to find a real technician, not a turkey roaster!

    Leave a comment:


  • ssilver777
    replied
    I have a Giotto rocket and I am struggling to prime the pump. The machine will not pressurize. I spoke to the technician who sent instructions on removing the water reservoir and pushing water into the boiler using a turkey baster while the handle is in the up position (pump on). This did not work and now I have a blinking green light which i believe is a low water indicator. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. My apologies in advance if I am not using this forum correctly. Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • danielb
    replied
    Well I finally got around to replacing the components last night. Was a pain to get the old components off the board! Put the box back in the machine and.......nothing. Got nothing. No power light. Oh well - it was a good learning experience anyway. I have a feeling it might be something to do with the transformer which was slightly different to the original. (I was told it should work by a friend). Will have to check out noidle22's post above - I think it might be the twin output one. Back to the drawing board........
    Daniel

    Leave a comment:


  • noidle22
    replied
    Good thread, lots of useful information there.

    For future reference if you need to do a transformer replacement or if anyone else is reading this, you can use the twin output transformer but it requires some fine soldering work.

    Each set of pins outputs 9Vac at 1VA. By paralleling (not series) the outputs together, the output remains 9Vac but the VA increases to 2VA (combined VA of both sets of outputs.)

    Click image for larger version

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    By soldering the pins together as per the diagram (don't hate on my paint skills) close to the base of the transformer, being careful not to damage the transformer base with the soldering iron tip, this will achieve the coils wired in parallel. Then, cut off the centre 2 pins as close to the base as you can and the transformer should fit into the original mounting spot with enough length on the pins to resolder to the board.

    Leave a comment:


  • gahobbsau
    replied
    Transformer replaced in Controller box gets machine working again

    For those interested, I could recommend visiting a separate thread that I started about my problem at Rocket Giotto Premium Plus won't start - Diagnostic help appreciated - Espresso Machines • Home-Barista.com
    I describes a series of diagnostics and how I ended up replacing the Transformer in my Controller box and explains the effects that this fault caused.
    It also provides a description of the role of the three relays on the controller board and how the earthed water detectors (at water tank and at boiler) are connected to relays which control the completion of the main 240V circuit and the role which the Transformer has in this arrangement.

    All the best and thanks for your interest.
    Graham

    Leave a comment:


  • gahobbsau
    replied
    Originally posted by danielb View Post
    Hi,
    I haven't had a chance to change the parts and test yet. But this these are the parts I purchased.
    Cheers, Daniel
    Thanks Daniel,
    I see that the relay on your invoice with that Part No 365-0585 is a DPDT. Since making my post above, I seem to have worked out that the relay for my board is an SPST (NO) with RS Stock No.419-271. I think that this relay would be a match for my ProElind A190004542 controller box seen at Buy Non-Latching Relays SPST-NO PCB Mount Non-Latching Relay, 16 A, 12V dc Omron G5RL1AELN12DC online from RS for next day delivery.
    If this is likely to be incorrect, I am happy to be advised so by someone.

    I am still looking for a match for the Transformer. My tranny is a Myrra 44122 and while au.rs-online.com list pleny of Myrra trannys, the 44122 is not in their listing. The closest that I have found seems to be RS Stock No.173-9721 for a Myrra 44128. Buy PCB Transformers 9 V ac 2 Output Through Hole PCB Transformer, 2VA Myrra 44128 online from RS for next day delivery.

    Daniel, When you get round to fitting them to the board, let us know.

    Thanks for the interest and assistance.

    Leave a comment:


  • danielb
    replied
    Hi,
    I haven't had a chance to change the parts and test yet. But this these are the parts I purchased.
    Cheers, Daniel
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • gahobbsau
    replied
    Hey danielb,
    Could you possibly assist by posting the exact details of the part numbers and source for your order for the Relay and Transformer?
    My relay is identified as an "HF115F 012-1Hs3" but I can't seem to locate an exact match on the RS Australia | World Leading Distributor of Electronics, Electromechanical and Industrial Components website.
    I have located a Hongfa Data Sheet for this set of relays.
    Thanks in advance.

    Leave a comment:


  • gahobbsau
    replied
    Rocket Giotto Premium won't start. Some diagnostic help would be appreciated.

    My Rocket Giotto Premium Plus will not switch on and start up.
    ** Question: What are the possible causes? **

    Reading this thread indicates failure of the relay on the controller board as the likely cause and its replacement with a bit of handy soldering at the likely solution.
    However, before I proceed on that path, given the mulitmeter testing below, I'd like to identify and check other possible causes and eliminate (or find) those possible causes.
    ** Request: Can you please advise other possible likely causes or diagnostic steps that I might check before proceeding to replace the relay? **

    Description:
    a) Last time it worked, I turned it on and after about maybe 5 seconds, the indicator lamp went out and all indications of action ceased. My response was to turn the power switch off for about 5 seconds, then on again - thence it worked just fine = poured a long black and steamed a little milk for the mac, then a little clean-up and turned it off.
    b) Next time for coffee, turn the power switch on and no signs of life.

    Dis-assembly: I have all the covers off the machine and have disconnected the cable connectors from the controller box and can slide the controller boards in and out of the box.

    Multimeter testing: I have performed some Multimeter testing at the 240V power side leads to the Controller box and board - See wiring diagram attached:
    a) I have tested and found power between the 240V Brown and each of the power leads on the high voltage side. I have also found 240v between the Brown and the pole on the switch in the Sirai Pressurestat (on the heating element side). Each of these tests would seem to me to indicate that the relay is operational, but I am no electronic expert.
    ** Question: Are there any other multimeter tests that I should check, especially if i am searching for a failed component.

    I am posting here as the thread above seems the most helpful. If there is not much response, I may re-post as a new thread.

    Thanks in advance for all and any assistance provided and for interest you have shown.

    Some detail may help:
    Age: About 20 months
    Scale: None - RO Filtered water used
    Controller box model No: A190004542
    Board manufacturer: ProElind
    Cable connectors are modular female, one green (240v power side) and one black
    Wiring: Appears to be up to date. It is almost identical to the latest diagram that I can find which is in the "Giotto Premium Plus Version 2 Spare Parts Diagram" manual by Espresso Company Aust, dated Feb 2014. The diagram quotes Codd A190004275.
    Pressurestat: Sirai
    Attached Files
    Last edited by gahobbsau; 8 November 2014, 05:06 PM. Reason: Adding Multimeter testing and wiring diagram

    Leave a comment:


  • ausdb
    replied
    The soldering iron kit that Jaycar sells for $25 including a solder sucker would probably do the trick for you. Looking at your board its double sided so maybe grab a bit of solder wick as well which helps get the last bit of solder out as getting multi pin devices off boards is sometimes a pain if a couple of legs of the component still have a tiny little bridge of solder attaching it to the board. One tip especially if the old board uses lead free solder is to melt a little bit of fresh solder onto the joint you want to take apart and then desolder it, sounds weird but it works really well. If you see ROHS markings on the device then you can guarantee it is soldered with lead free solder which doesn't remelt/flow as well as old fashioned 60/40 lead tin solder.

    Another really drastic method that makes it easier is to get the old component off the board especially if you have no need to recover it is to cut the component apart or if it has legs leads to cut each leg off that way you can heat each joint individually and pull them off the board, tends to work really well with large multi pin semiconductors but may be a bit hard in this situation.

    Ideally you would be better practising on something that doesn't matter if you break it but hey nothing ventured nothing gained!

    Leave a comment:


  • danielb
    replied
    Parts have arrived. I was a bit stumped right from the start - how to de-solder the old parts???? After watching several youtube videos I've come to the conclusion that this project is not gonna happen tonight. Might have to phone a friend for some help - or acquire the basic necessary tools to do the job. Will keep you posted......

    Leave a comment:


  • noidle22
    replied
    as long as the voltage of the secondary winding matches the voltage of the original transformer then it should be fine. The only other factor you need to consider is the VA of the transformer.
    Going with a bigger VA is not a problem, in fact the transformer will probably be able to handle the heat better than the original one. If the VA is smaller then there will be problems.
    I think the one you ordered has a slightly higher VA than the original so as long as the voltage is the same then you'll be fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • danielb
    replied
    Thanks guys. Parts are ordered. $13.88 total. The relay is the exact same part, the transformer is a different brand. Looked to be same specs except the original one was EI30/10.5 and the new one is EI30/12.5. Does that matter? Cheers, Daniel

    Leave a comment:


  • noidle22
    replied
    It's not a hard job, you can't really go wrong as the relay and also the transformer only fit in one way. Good way to get into some soldering as well.
    You can find all the data you need for the transformer specs on the top of the transformer itself. Transformers are cheap too, around $5-$10.

    Leave a comment:


  • coffee_machinist
    replied
    You should also replace the transformer (orange/red square). If the green power light went out intermittently that indicates a transformer failure.

    Leave a comment:

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