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  • Expobar Minore IV vs Lelit PL60T v2 vs... ?

    Hi,

    This is my first post so play gentle. By the way you have a great forum here guys...

    Around 12 months ago I purchased a Nespresso machine, thinking it would be a good way to ease into the world of coffee especially, as I really was after convenience. On average my wife and I would drink 1-2 coffees each twice a day from it, and I'd go for a morning coffee at the local shops with the lads at work.

    I'm probably not going to make any friends by saying it but I've really enjoyed the coffee I get from my Nespresso machine, which is the Maestria with the steam wand. I'm surprised by the amount of crema it produces and some of the latte art. However, now 1 year later, I'm finding that I want to progress to the next level where I can control more aspects of this art and get more involved in the ceremony of making good coffee.

    From my research so far I started looking at the Rancilio Silvia/Rocky (doserless) combination. From what I've read it seems to be difficult to master but when you do it's an incredible machine. Then I started thinking it would be nice to have dual boilers so then started looking at the LelitP L60 v2 and finally now at the more expensive Expobar Minore IV with the dual PIDs. I would probably pair with the Compak K3 grinder.

    I guess I'm after any helpful advice on the machines I've mentioned or my situation coming from a pod machine. I think I may keep the Nespresso machine for when I'm entertaining but I haven't decided yet.

    TIA
    Last edited by Pants; 3 September 2013, 10:22 PM.

  • #2
    Hi,

    No dramas. I would only worry about the Nespresso machine a little bit... admittedly we all had to get started somehow.

    On the machine side of things I want to point out that you need the machine AND the grinder. You have mentioned two decent grinders so you are on the right track. In terms of the equipment you get it depends on a) why you are getting it (presumably to make great espresso) and b) budget. Any of those machines and grinder combinations would make great coffee so I suggest the Rancilio Silvia/Compact K3 Push combination. That reflects the importance I place on the grinder in this process.

    The other reason I'm suggestion this less expensive option is that I assume you haven't used an espresso machine before. With that in mind it would also be worth doing a home barista course (it would cost $300 or so). I did part 1 & 2 with Toby's Estate in Melbourne; it gave me a great head start and a reference point for making coffee. I highly recommend it.

    One other thing - if you get this equipment you will never use your Nespresso machine. There is only one factor I can think of that would mean you keep the Nespresso machine...

    Hope this helps!

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Crema,

      I can only add this. I have had a few machines in my time which have each been a step of from the one before. I owned those machines for a short time before becoming unsatisfied with them resulting in yet another upgrade. Until i got myself the Expobar Minore IV and also paired it with the K3 grinder. its been well over 2 years and im still happy. Yes there are many other machines which look nicer and arguably preform better however for my needs im more than happy with what i have. I look back and it wasnt a cheap upgrade but it may play a factor in why i havent needed to upgrade since.

      Good luck with finding a machine

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello Crema,

        If you are looking for simultaneous shot and steam, good heat exchanger machines will also deliver this. Ignore the old cooling flush discussions around the place. This does not apply with well designed and calibrated machines so there may be some other excellent candidates to be considered on your short-list.

        With respect to your choices: Both are very good machines. The Expobar has larger boilers and therefore more capacity than the Lelit. It's also twice the weight!

        That said, I have just had the Lelit at home for a few weeks while we waited for our new kitchen bench to be drilled for my usual plumbed in machine. We had some brilliant shots.

        My advice in matters such as this is to choose the one you like rather than purchase on price alone. It's your espresso partner and you will be looking at it every day. You might as well choose one which is also pleasing to the eye!

        Cheers

        Chris

        Comment


        • #5
          Something to contemplate with twin boiler machines is the fact that you have two boilers to maintain along with the extra plumbing and wiring, rightly or wrongly this became an important consideration when I was in the market for a new machine.

          Twin boilers sounded like a great idea until I thought it through and realised that with the extra boiler came extra complexity along with extra things to go wrong.

          I settled on a good quality single boiler machine and have not regretted it.
          Last edited by Yelta; 4 September 2013, 10:06 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bjjoh3 View Post
            Hi,

            No dramas. I would only worry about the Nespresso machine a little bit... admittedly we all had to get started somehow.

            On the machine side of things I want to point out that you need the machine AND the grinder. You have mentioned two decent grinders so you are on the right track. In terms of the equipment you get it depends on a) why you are getting it (presumably to make great espresso) and b) budget. Any of those machines and grinder combinations would make great coffee so I suggest the Rancilio Silvia/Compact K3 Push combination. That reflects the importance I place on the grinder in this process.

            The other reason I'm suggestion this less expensive option is that I assume you haven't used an espresso machine before. With that in mind it would also be worth doing a home barista course (it would cost $300 or so). I did part 1 & 2 with Toby's Estate in Melbourne; it gave me a great head start and a reference point for making coffee. I highly recommend it.

            One other thing - if you get this equipment you will never use your Nespresso machine. There is only one factor I can think of that would mean you keep the Nespresso machine...

            Hope this helps!
            Thanks for the reply. Yes, I completely understand where you're coming from but I'm someone who's also spent a lot of money by taking things slowly only to find myself inevitably upgrading, only to then lose money. This is really why I'm looking at this price bracket, although I haven't completely decided yet.

            Great tip about the barista training! Thanks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by coffeechris View Post
              Hi Crema,

              I can only add this. I have had a few machines in my time which have each been a step of from the one before. I owned those machines for a short time before becoming unsatisfied with them resulting in yet another upgrade. Until i got myself the Expobar Minore IV and also paired it with the K3 grinder. its been well over 2 years and im still happy. Yes there are many other machines which look nicer and arguably preform better however for my needs im more than happy with what i have. I look back and it wasnt a cheap upgrade but it may play a factor in why i havent needed to upgrade since.

              Good luck with finding a machine

              Good to know. I'm aiming to be in your situation where I buy wisely and once so it lasts me a while...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                Hello Crema,

                If you are looking for simultaneous shot and steam, good heat exchanger machines will also deliver this. Ignore the old cooling flush discussions around the place. This does not apply with well designed and calibrated machines so there may be some other excellent candidates to be considered on your short-list.

                With respect to your choices: Both are very good machines. The Expobar has larger boilers and therefore more capacity than the Lelit. It's also twice the weight!

                That said, I have just had the Lelit at home for a few weeks while we waited for our new kitchen bench to be drilled for my usual plumbed in machine. We had some brilliant shots.

                My advice in matters such as this is to choose the one you like rather than purchase on price alone. It's your espresso partner and you will be looking at it every day. You might as well choose one which is also pleasing to the eye!

                Cheers

                Chris
                This led me to read about how HX machines work Some quick research and I think it was love at first sight when I come across the Rocket Giotto Evoluzione Version 2. I especially like the option to plumb it in. I also noticed the Expobar Office Leva. Are these examples of a good HX machines you were referring to?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                  Something to contemplate with twin boiler machines is the fact that you have two boilers to maintain along with the extra plumbing and wiring, rightly or wrongly this became an important consideration when I was in the market for a new machine.

                  Twin boilers sounded like a great idea until I thought it through and realised that with the extra boiler came extra complexity along with extra things to go wrong.

                  I settled on a good quality single boiler machine and have not regretted it.
                  Im thinking this is a good reason to go with the HX setup? I think electricity consumption would be about the same with a dual boiler (with both turned on) and a HX machine...?

                  I'd like to go into a shop and look at some of these machines. I work at Bowen Hills, Brisbane QLD so if anyone can recommend someone I'd really appreciate it because my wallets getting heavy...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Neli Coffee in Clontarf have the PL60 V2 and some Heat Exchanger machines on display (and demo I think)

                    charlie

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm in the same boat as you CremaMyPants as alluded to in my post in the "I'm new here" thread. Brisbane is slim pickings for quality machine suppliers who have access to a wide variety so you can physically touch, try and ogle before you buy. Maybe a group buy to Brisbane is called for lol. Help us poor Queenslanders out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Charlie. Is there anything closer to Bowen Hills, or in the Western Suburbs?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have two dual boiler machines (Alex Duetto 2 & VBM) and have not had any problem with either of them; both should last a lifetime with proper care. These machines are worthy of your consideration although they don't fit into the 'pointy end' category price wise. If you think you may be prone to upgrading then they're worth a look, especially if you're likely to want to make a number of coffees back to back.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My only opinion is on expobar. I bought the first brewtus and when it's been working its been great. But so far I have probably spent $1300 on repairs. And the most recent at $850 for a new controller and the second heating element has pushed me to ditch it for a new machine.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jasaretta View Post
                              My only opinion is on expobar. I bought the first brewtus and when it's been working its been great. But so far I have probably spent $1300 on repairs. And the most recent at $850 for a new controller and the second heating element has pushed me to ditch it for a new machine.
                              Hooley dooley!

                              If you paid $850 for that work, you were charged and then charged again.

                              Comment

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