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I used to use a Saeco Magic Deluxe at work. For a fully auto machine, the espresso it produced was pretty damn good (just make sure you fill it with fresh beans!). Unfortunately the steam wand left a lot to be desired.
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I've used a Jura machine in a former workplace, and it produced an acceptable milk based coffee. I wouldn't drink it as an espresso (not that I drink much espresso), but diluted in milk it consistently produced an average cup, which was more than could be said about the cafe at street level.
The problems were:
1. Only a couple of people would bother to maintain the machine. As a result it had problems regularly.
2. People without a clue would fiddle with the settings, e.g. setting an espresso shot to like 100ml+ because "it doesn't make enough coffee"
3. The one touch milk system was worse than useless. Besides making terrible frothed milk, it added a bunch of extra complexity to the cleaning processes. Going back to point 1, having milk curdle in the lines overnight isn't a great thing. We eventually abandoned the milk system and just used the steam wand to texture milk as it was less annoying to clean.
Being a small office, you can control points 1 and 2, but point 3 remains a problem. Automatic milk systems always produce terrible results and are fiddly to clean.
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If they approach it methodically there's no reason they shouldn't.Originally posted by TOK View Post"simple" relationship of grind to dose. In real life not many people outside the confines of professional coffee people, can get it right.
Grind x grams into a light container on a scale. Dose with it. Adjust grind and repeat until you get a favourable taste and/or extraction time/volume.
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Not so, it's a simple process that most interested people are able to master quite quickly.Originally posted by TOK View Post"simple" relationship of grind to dose. In real life not many people outside the confines of professional coffee people, can get it right.
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"simple" relationship of grind to dose. In real life not many people outside the confines of professional coffee people, can get it right.
EDIT:
and I should have added....office situations are frought with problems due to individuals wanting to push their own pet coffee supply, and fiddling with the equipment. So you set the equipment for the official coffee supply, then a) individuals fiddle the programmed settings and b) change the beans over from time to time. The settings programmed are for the beans supply of the time. Use anything else and the machine will behave differently and not to optimum (same as conventional machines/grinders) due to differen bean densities / characteristics.
Of course when you go out to rectify an office coffee machine that is not working properly, you cop abuse because the machine "never works properly" and also because while you are working on it, they cant get their coffee....a strange attitude for people to adopt when you are, often enough, there to rectify a problem that they caused, so that it will work properly for them again.....
The subject of this topic however is not frought with the same extreme dangers as the OP has advised it is for a two person office. More likelihood of a machine staying where it has been set for a particular kind of blend.
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Pretty sure I can press the button as well as the next guyOriginally posted by TOK View PostThat generally means high end / expensive / "commercial" type auto machines, most of which are certainly capable of "good coffee" ....in the hands of a a knowledgeable operator.
But seriously, I can completely believe that a company which specialises in corporate coffee supply could employ non-specialist people who just clean the machine and it top up with cheap beans.
It's just of the 6 or so machines I've used in various workplaces, none have ever produced a drink which really even resembles coffee. Just a rather watery bland drink with an unusual mouthfeel and unpleasant aftertaste. Even when pouring two "espresso" shots and only collecting the first half of each pour.
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Then the machines are not properly set...simple as that. Especially when you talk machines with two hoppers. That generally means high end / expensive / "commercial" type auto machines, most of which are certainly capable of "good coffee" ....in the hands of a a knowledgeable operator. Same story as conventional (non auto) espresso machines. If ya gonna have one, you need to know how to use it properly...Dont blame the tools !Originally posted by MrJack View Post.....Looking at the waste grins, they are far too coarse even at the finest setting....In the office I'm currently working (headquarters of a large oil and gas company) the machines are cleaned and serviced regularly (multiple times per week) and they have two blends to choose from (dual hoppers). The coffee is still rubbish. I am more picky than most of the other employees though.
Seriously Jarvis....you need to talk to a professional coffee equipment supplier that understands "coffee use" in a variety if situations, and therefore what is more appropriate for each, rather than dept store people who are not specialised in the field etc...and you need to get off line. Being on line will give you some background to get started with, but can you pick which of it is biased, right or wrong? Ask some one in the field of coffee machines.
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Surely the quality of what the upper-end Juras churn out is a function of what you feed them, and how regularly they are cleaned? I've had a few coffees in a large office that I sometimes visit, where they use fresh beans from a (former) site sponsor and Jura (not sure of model), and have been surprised at the 'reasonableness' of the coffee. Certainly a lot better than anything I've had from a pod machine.Originally posted by MrJack View PostI've used Jura machines in a few of my workplaces, as well as the corporate nespresso. Neither produce a drink even half as good as my old <$500 Breville BES820, and cost considerably more. The Jura output barely resembles coffee. I prefer instant. The nespresso is better, but not much. Not a case of you get what you pay for, in my opinion. I have given up drinking coffee in the office and drink tea instead.
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Superautos won't (I imagine) do great milk, which makes a huge difference to milk drinks (duh), but black drinks highlight flaws/character in grind/tamp/etc, and superautos don't (once again, from what I've read) have great grinders, for one.Originally posted by bxp View PostSerious question, have there ever been blind taste tests using the same beans using different methods? I'd guess that with milk based drinks a decent machine would win hands down but for short blacks/espressos I don't think it would be clear cut.
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My current boss roasts his own beans, and told me he'd tried a few decent beans with no luck. Looking at the waste grins, they are far too coarse even at the finest setting. In the office I'm currently working (headquarters of a large oil and gas company) the machines are cleaned and serviced regularly (multiple times per week) and they have two blends to choose from (dual hoppers). The coffee is still rubbish. I am more picky than most of the other employees though.
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Call me sceptical but do you think super autos at workplaces have good beans and are well calibrated? Just like the best expensive machines they don't churn out the best coffee without having the right materials and using it right. You still have the variables of beans, grind, water temp and water volume. I'm not saying they're all good but fresh beans in just about anything; auto, semi, Aeropress will probably taste nicer than a store bought pod.
Serious question, have there ever been blind taste tests using the same beans using different methods? I'd guess that with milk based drinks a decent machine would win hands down but for short blacks/espressos I don't think it would be clear cut.
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I've used Jura machines in a few of my workplaces, as well as the corporate nespresso. Neither produce a drink even half as good as my old <$500 Breville BES820, and cost considerably more. The Jura output barely resembles coffee. I prefer instant. The nespresso is better, but not much. Not a case of you get what you pay for, in my opinion. I have given up drinking coffee in the office and drink tea instead.
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you're not gonna get many recommendations for super autos on this forum sadly.
I came from a jura j5 myself, and it makes less than half decent coffee on a good day, but they are pretty much the best money can buy in the 'one-touch operation' department.
the new j9 has had stellar reviews and the colour LCD is pretty fancy, the bigger chains always have a good deal on these machines... that or the saecos would be your best bet for the coin you're willing to pay.
If you got a Jura, plenty of service centres for you to choose from, not too sure about TAS, but in WA alone there's at least 3 coffee machine shops that I know of that deal with Juras. Mine J9 was serviced once every 6 months, but a year should suffice if you use the cleaning and descale tablets accordingly...
as for buying beans online, you can have look through the beanbay section of this forum.
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Hi Jarvis, welcome to the forums... Afraid I can't help on what to buy as my experience with auto machines has not been the best, but now I know more about coffee I can see maybe the machines weren't at fault so much as - nobody cleaning them, no adjustment of grind done, crappy bulk-buy beans, not able to change temp or steam pressure etc. Fine coffee is almost an art form, and automating such a process can be difficult.
But if you aren't into that level of persnicketiness, it should be a matter of find the machine in your price range that can be set and forget with maybe occasional adjustments to allow for summer/winter, different beans etc. Make sure to have a schedule for cleaning and descaling.
Sorry I can't help more but thought I'd say g'day!
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Which Machine
Hi everyone,
I was put on to this forum from Whirlpool. I'll try to keep this brief and appreciate any advice.
I run a small business from home with my wife. For the past couple of years I have been using a DeLonghi Nespresso machine, with a milk frother, but generally I am just doing 2 shots of coffee and adding plain milk. Frothing even with the container, I find is too much effort and takes too long.
The machine is finally on the way out and I'm looking to replace it.
I am looking to get a fully automatic machine, but from my research has realised that if I'm going to do it, then I should ensure I pay out enough to make sure it's something decent.
I have heard good things about Jura machines and can get one through the business from somewhere like Harvey Norman quite easily.
Can anyone recommend a machine that would be suitable for my needs:
Two people working from home. I generally have around 8 cups a day, my wife has maybe 3-4, but with the occasional client, then maybe up to 20 cups a day, 7 days a week.
Automatic and easy. I don't want to have to have a milk jug that needs rinsing every time I make a cup, ideally I want to be able to hit a button, and have a coffee. I have read that some Jura machines have a hose straight in to a carton?
I am not sure where to start budget wise.
HN's top priced machine is Commercial link removed per our posting policy , but would that be overkill?
I'm having trouble understanding the difference between the range of Jura machines. I'm also wondering why the AU Jura site doesn't list the Z9, is it new, or perhaps labelled wrong on the HN web site?
How often does a fully automatic machine need servicing?
How much does this cost, and who generally does it? (I am in Tas is that makes any difference)
Can anyone recommend somewhere online to purchase quality coffee beans?
Thanks,
JarvisTags: None
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