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ADVICE PLEASE - ECM Rocket Giotto

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  • #16
    As an epitaph to this story, I actually did end up buying a second hand ECM Giotto from a dealer that had given it a service before I bought it. That gave me some confidence that it was at least operating reasonably after I walked out with it. It's a plumbed model that was a custom build for its time. It's great to have a plumbed machine. No refilling of water, which is awesome.

    So I got the machine in early January (actually, it was a combined Christmas and anniversary present from my wife as guided by me - she's a keeper). I also bought a Compak K2 Push grinder to upgrade from the Sunbeam EM0480. The Giotto worked swimmingly until the end of April when threw a heating element. Three weeks later, the pressurestat packed it in. The repairer assured me the two were unrelated and it was just bad luck. All up, the repairs cost about $250. All has been fine since. Here's my brief analysis of the pros and cons of my experience.

    Pros
    1. I love the machine and it's a talking point for visitors. It really is a beautiful thing to behold. I do like shiny things.
    2. It reinvigorated my passion for making coffee. It made me re-learn all parts of the process. Grinding, tamping, extracting and frothing milk all suddenly required me to be much more attentive to the process and made me taste my coffee more critically. I think I got lazy after owning my Sunbeam for quite a few years and my coffee drifted into mediocrity.
    3. The quality of the extraction is superb. How much of that has to do with my being more attentive to the process is hard to gauge but I'm pulling some cracker coffees with it.
    4. It cost a quarter of the price of a new machine. It'll take many more repairs for it to make up the difference in cost of a new one.
    5. I love that it's plumbed. No water refilling is a dream. I'm not sure I can ever go back to a tank model.

    CONS
    1. It's already had two repairs and only time will tell if it will require many more.
    2. It takes me more time to make my coffee. It needs longer to warm up than my old Sunbeam and is a little more difficult to clean up. This one's marginal as I've got my process down pretty well now. Having said that, as of two weeks ago, I hooked the machine up to a Belkin WeMo and I've got it starting automatically 10 minutes before my alarm goes off.
    3. The machine and grinder are big. They take up more real estate on the bench than my Sunbeam combo. Makes it a little tricky as we have limited bench space.
    4. The machine is noisy on startup. I'm not sure I even need an alarm clock as the machine wakes me before the alarm goes.

    In conclusion, would I do it again? The answer is an unequivocal YES. Of course, if the machine blows up in a month's time, I reserve the right to change my mind. As a long term case study, I'll check in from time to time and update you all on any issues that I might have.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bigrizz View Post
      5. I love that it's plumbed. No water refilling is a dream. I'm not sure I can ever go back to a tank model.
      It's noisy on start up? It must still have the vibe pump. As it is plumbed in, could you have a rotary pump installed instead?

      I hope your wife is appreciating your step up in the world of better coffee making. That's what I keep saying to my wife when I splurge on my hobby: "but you are enjoying the benefits too!".

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      • #18
        Sorry mate. I was expecting a notification via email (option is enabled) of any new posts to the thread but never got one, so missed your post. The SPAM filter might have swallowed it.

        Yes, it's got a vibe pump. I have no idea whether a rotary pump is a drop-in replacement or a major PITA project. Anyone else know? Other than noise, is it really worth the effort? Maybe it's a job to do if the pump ever dies. I was under the impression that all plumbed machines had rotary pumps prior to buying this machine. Obviously not. I think I formed that view from reading various threads and posts from across the web. I understand that rotary pumps deliver a more consistent water pressure profile during extraction but I have no idea if the plumbing of the machine has any bearing on the performance of the pump.

        As far as the WAF is concerned, I don't think her pallet is discerning enough for her to accept the additional expense buying a new machine. She was perfectly happy with the coffee I was churning out with the Sunbeam. Although I think she appreciates that my passion for coffee has reached new levels. That and the fact that it gives her something to give me stick about at dinner parties!

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        • #19
          For "spontaneous" coffee, I can drastically speed up the heating of my machine (Lelit Dual Boiler)
          by waiting until the boiler first reaches the set temp (about 3 minutes), then flushing a good 150ml or so through the group, with PF attached and into my cups.
          The Lelit only has small boilers (around 300ml) so this has the effect of half draining the boiler of hot water and keeping the heating element on flat out for twice as long to really get heat into the group fast.
          it really only needs another 4-5 minutes at this point to have the machine at full operational/ stable temp.
          I've tested this with my brew temp thermometer and the test data matches up with the machine operation after being on for hours.

          I'm also in the habit of turning the machine on and leaving it on whenever I'm home.
          I do switch off the steam boiler though, it's super-fast to generate the pressure required anyway.

          I would invest in some sound deadening material (butyl based with aluminium backing, self adhesive) to attach to the interior panels
          Doing so has greatly reduced the resonance of the vibe pumps through the casing in my machine.
          one roll from Jaycar at $30 is almost twice as much as I needed.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Robbks View Post
            For "spontaneous" coffee, I can drastically speed up the heating of my machine (Lelit Dual Boiler)
            by waiting until the boiler first reaches the set temp (about 3 minutes), then flushing a good 150ml or so through the group, with PF attached and into my cups.
            The Lelit only has small boilers (around 300ml) so this has the effect of half draining the boiler of hot water and keeping the heating element on flat out for twice as long to really get heat into the group fast.
            it really only needs another 4-5 minutes at this point to have the machine at full operational/ stable temp.
            I've tested this with my brew temp thermometer and the test data matches up with the machine operation after being on for hours.

            I'm also in the habit of turning the machine on and leaving it on whenever I'm home.
            I do switch off the steam boiler though, it's super-fast to generate the pressure required anyway.

            I would invest in some sound deadening material (butyl based with aluminium backing, self adhesive) to attach to the interior panels
            Doing so has greatly reduced the resonance of the vibe pumps through the casing in my machine.
            one roll from Jaycar at $30 is almost twice as much as I needed.
            Good tips, mate. Thanks. I'll investigate the Jaycar sound deadening option. There's plenty of room inside my machine to accommodate sound deadening. I didn't really ponder that as an option.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by bigrizz View Post
              Pros
              4. It cost a quarter of the price of a new machine. It'll take many more repairs for it to make up the difference in cost of a new one.
              CONS
              1. It's already had two repairs and only time will tell if it will require many more.

              In conclusion, would I do it again? The answer is an unequivocal YES. Of course, if the machine blows up in a month's time, I reserve the right to change my mind. As a long term case study, I'll check in from time to time and update you all on any issues that I might have.
              Yes, PROs & CONs are all looks contradict. When I decided to go for a HX, I grabbed a new V3PID from CS sponsor and save the time & hassle, just enjoy the coffee! I need time to get more $$$

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by bigrizz View Post
                Good tips, mate. Thanks. I'll investigate the Jaycar sound deadening option. There's plenty of room inside my machine to accommodate sound deadening. I didn't really ponder that as an option.
                My advice with the stuff is this. (I've always used it in my cars to lower/ absorb road noise and dampen vibrations from audio systems)

                -you don't need to completely cover the panel you're working on, even a single piece 1/5 the size of teh panel or smaller in the centre of that panel, or cut in half again and placed at thirds across the panel is sufficient to add the weight and cancel the vibrations
                -don;t put it too close to the boilers, or directly above them. you can end up reflecting heat back into the machine, which is good for boiler temps but you don;t want to over-heat control boards
                -this stuff has a "working" temp up to 110'c so over that there's the possibility of the adhesive melting and then the material slipping or falling off the panel.

                here's a the stuff I have always used, it's only a few mm thick
                Butyl Based Sound Deadening Material - Jaycar Electronics
                and some installed pics in this thread
                See how i've left it a little way away from the boiler

                http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post539872

                Comment


                • #23
                  Aha, ok. I'd have assumed to cover the panels entirely. Thanks for the heads up. I see what you mean about needing bugger all material. So you noticed an appreciable improvement in quiteness, I'm guessing? If it was a jumbo jet originally, what level of noise is there now?

                  The other source of vibration noise is that I've got capuccino cups sitting on top of the machine that rattle like hell. I've got some plastic mesh I used for our dehydrator. I'm thinking of shaping a piece to sit under the cups for a little vibration control. I'm mindful not to block the holes on top of the cup warmer.

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                  • #24
                    On my machine, definitely a Cessna
                    While the pumps themselves still make the same noise, it's just not reverberated through the whole chassis.

                    take an empty tin can and tap it with a spoon.
                    Then hit a full can with the same spoon.
                    it still makes a nose (the energy you have transferred into it from the spoon) but it doesn't resonate

                    here's a different product used and his focuses more on actually containing the sound within the casing, but it also stops the resonance

                    http://youtu.be/rlZvSj98UkU?t=3m58s

                    Here's a video from Jetblack of the Lelit PL60 (previous version)
                    And you can hear that metallic vibration
                    http://youtu.be/MOqK0KqVM9M?t=38s

                    I'll grab one of my macchine tonight and upload as comparison

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