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Descaling Woes/issues VBM Domobar Super

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  • Descaling Woes/issues VBM Domobar Super

    Hi everyone,

    Long time viewer first time poster. I'll give you a short run down about my situation, if you can't be bothered to read it all please look at the very bottom of the post.

    VBM Domobar Super
    purchased mid 2012
    Descaled end of 2013 (maybe should have done it earlier)
    Back flushed every week

    Removed the "mushroom" bolt off the group head and saw excessive scale, decided to descale. Used an "Organic descaling solution" from a large name company. It removed all the scale and cleaned it up quiet well but ever since then, the machine still has the residue of the descaling solution in the smell of the steam, boiler and heat exchanger. Before descaling I had perfect microfoam milk and perfect tasting espresso, now I have large air bubbles and steam that smells off and espresso that tastes off with a very off putting after-taste. Also the hot water wand tastes off with a bad after taste.

    I have flushed the system out for 2 hours while connected to the mains water, and have checked and cleaned the steam wand (I'm sure I have no pieces of scale in the lines).

    Since then I have used another branding descaling solution (which didnt have such a harsh smell) and while it has improved, hasn't gotten the rid of the problem completely.

    I have always been careful and don't believe my boiler is contaminated by milk, everything was fine before the descale.

    What are my solutions to solving this problem? Short of removing the boiler and physically cleaning it and the rest of the system is there anything I can try? I am a Mechanical Engineer so I am very technically capable, I just don't want to attempt this job if there is another, less evasive, solution.

    tl;dr

    Descaling my machine has left a strong smell/taste of the descaling solution, what can I do to fix this?

  • #2
    Is it a DB Super or an HX Super? (ISTR it comes in both flavours but I may be confusing it with the Junior)

    There is a very specific procedure you need to follow for HX machines to properly descale them; http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...-properly.html

    If it's DB it's a more specialised task and you should probably get a service agent to do it.

    Comment


    • #3
      I used this guide to descale the machine

      http://www.espressocare.com/PDF-File...%201-14-11.pdf

      Followed it exactly. It is a HX machine.

      Comment


      • #4
        I used to have that machine and had descaled it several times using a very similar set of instructions and never had an issue.

        After you let the machine sit with the descaler solution, what did the liquid look like when you started rinsing?
        If it was filthy, maybe some scale remains somewhere that has been softened possibly tainting the clean water passing through.
        Repeating the process again may help if this is the case.

        When rinsing, are you removing the return hose from the tank ensuring no tainted return liquid is mixing with the clean water in the tank?

        Was the water softener from the intake hose removed when the tank had descaling solution in it?

        Hope this helps, let us know how it goes.

        Cheers

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi, thanks for your response. The water was filthy. I had attempted a second and a third descale in an attempt to remove the residue but it didn't work.

          The return hose was removed and I have no water softener, just a filter that was removed. On the last descale I manually drained the boiler to make sure there was more solution left. None of that helped.

          Comment


          • #6
            After the 3rd time, was the water still dirty when flushing?
            If the scale is bad, there may be some crap remaining that just cant be flushed but is now softened causing foul taste.
            Instead of the mushroom, can you pull something else off to inspect like a main pipe connecting to the boiler?
            If there is built up gunk, the copper components will unfortunately require disassembly and soaked in an acid bath as a descaling flush just won't cut it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fg1972 View Post
              Instead of the mushroom, can you pull something else off to inspect like a main pipe connecting to the boiler?
              If there is built up gunk, the copper components will unfortunately require disassembly and soaked in an acid bath as a descaling flush just won't cut it.
              Yeah, sounds like you have a pretty severe case of scale, sounds like it may be at the "strip it down and dump it in a bath of citric acid stage..."

              If it got that bad in a 18 months you should look into getting a water softener.

              Comment


              • #8
                After the third time the water was clean. Probably is that time, but I feel like its too early for something so evasive. Maybe a water softener is the way to go?

                Anyone have any details on a bath descale proceeder? What sort of concentration of citric acid per litre of water? Also is temperature of the water important?

                Can the boiler element also go into the bath?

                Thanks for all your advice guys.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A few years ago my friend descaled his heavily scaled machine which made it worse as it dislodged some of the scale which then became trapped in other areas.
                  I helped him dismantle the machine, and we soaked the parts in a bucket with water/citric acid mix.
                  I cant remember the exact ratio but whenever I descale my machines, I use approx 1-2 tablespoons citric acid per litre of water which should also work for an acid bath.
                  A little more of less concentration shouldn't be too much of an issue if everything is dismantled because you can see what is happening.
                  Hot water makes it easier to dissolve the acid and I can't see a reason why not to bathe the element. Just keep your eyes on everything and remove items that are clean.

                  May I suggest before going down the dismantle route that you at least remove a copper component to see how bad the scale is.

                  Cheers

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Rather than use Citric Acid, why not use something like this...

                    I used Citric Acid on a couple of early descale/clean-up jobs and while it was satisfactory, it's not a patch on the quality of finish that the above does for you. I used it on my first HX machine resto job and it does a great job. Given how inexpensive it is (yeah, I know Citric Acid is pretty cheap), I reckon it's the better stuff to use by a long way, after all, it is designed for the job...

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for your input guys. Dismantled it today and made a citric acid bath, probably should have purchased the above mentioned product, but after dismantling I have no visible scale. Some components still have a strong smell from the previous descaler, especially the steam pipe from the boiler. I'll let you know how it goes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        G'day ladies and gents!

                        I am glad to report the procedure went well! Left the components over night in the acid bath, removed them the next day and washed them well then soaked them in clean water, changing the water through out the day. The following day dried all the parts and reassembled the machine. Water tasted good, steam didn't smell and coffee tastes amazing! Back to its old self! I'm very happy with the results, and citric acid alone seems to do fine.

                        Once again, thank you all for your help and comments!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've just purchased some of the above (Recommended descaling link as posted by Dimal) solution and am going to attempt a descale on my Rocket Giotto when the product lands in my mailbox. I am, after reading this thread a little worried about the whole process though!???

                          Please convince me otherwise..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There is a procedure in here somewhere on descaling a heat exchanger machine.

                            Edit: found it:
                            http://coffeesnobs.com.au/showthread.php?t=29289

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              According to the lack of response from a diverse number of members. I can only assume that descaling is straight forward and with the above product quite successful. I've had a look at the links and they are fantastic. You really cant go wrong with the procedures shown here. So far one person has had some dramas with descaling and the rest seem to have had great results.

                              Am I right in thinking this?

                              Comment

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