Help! Please. What to buy? So confused...

[TC]

You'd have change from $2.5k with our Diadema Junior display machine coupled with a K3P

[GregWormald]

2 people, 4-6 cups/day.

Hmmm, are the two people willing to grind manually? If yes, then a manual grinder like the Pharos will give you the best grinds for the price (a large conical grinder for $300 or so, and leave more for the brewing machine. It also empties with few 'left-overs' for the next bean.

If no, then the other recommendations apply.

Greg

[Robbks]

New: Lelit Mara (PL62) Ex demo plus Compak K3 Push (other site sponsors will have similar gear/deals)
2nd hand: similar e61 type machine and flat burr commercial grade grinder - just bigger
For my money - go for small commercial/prosumer equipment and stay away from home appliances like Breville. They're not built as well, wont last as long, not as serviceable.

For the money,
The package mentioned here is VERY hard to beat.

My budget for my last upgrade was only $1500, so I couldn't quite afford something like the above package
But with some careful shopping I found a near new, Lelit Diana (PL60T V2) Dual Boiler and a Rancilio Rocky Coffee Grinder Doser for less than that budget
Given the new price of both machines, as long as they are maintained well (as I always do) they will easily hold their value if I do decide to upgrade.

[cimota]

Thanks again, both of you!

[Bosco_Lever]

Hi Coffee Aficionados,

I have been delegated to purchase the best possible coffee making equipment for a couple of serious coffee lovers who would like to experiment with different kinds of coffee.
Luckily, they have a good source of very small amounts of freshly roasted beans from all over the world available to them.
I have already spent hours researching, but I'm getting more and more confused. Please help!

- Approximately 4-6 cups per day, including 2 cups of the best Decaf.
- Absolute max. budget: $2500.00. (based on the Breville Oracle, which I'm not sure about because of the different types of beans after every 2 cups.)

Thank you very much for any suggestions.

So you have been allocated the task. What happens if they do not like what you recommend? I would not fork out that sort of money without some hands on experience first. Internet advice is fine as a guideline, but I can foresee many regrets in the future.
Are the coffee lovers going to keep the machine for a long time, or eventually upgrade?
Do they have any experience with any sort of espresso machine?
Are they willing to learn and master the process of making espresso?

From experience, many people start their journey, and learn at different speeds. After a while they may, or may not, wish to perfect their skills and abilities on a better machine. Yes, there will always be a better machine, and it is easy to succumb to human nature and upgrade. This is normal.

To begin the journey, I recommend a good second hand machine ($2k buys you a very good unit) and either a new grinder, or even a second hand one. They will have some nice bling in the kitchen and can learn and enjoy the coffee making process. As they get their routine in order, they will learn what they seek in their ultimate machine. They can then buy new, ex demo, etc. Their current unit can be sold. There is a market for well looked after second hand machines.

I started my journey this way, and quickly learnt what I did and did not like in a machine and grinder. My financial loss in upgrading was minimal. If you buy an appliance brand, the depreciation will be large, and the demand for second hand appliances of any sort is minimal. I have nothing against Breville as they suit some people and offer good value for money. From a different perspective, I would never recommend the Oracle, as the inability to vary the dose is a deal breaker for me. However, for a newcomer, it is one less variable to consider.

Best advice would be to have a play with the machine you intend to buy, and I mean a decent one, not just one or two shots of espresso.

[Caffeineholic]

There are plenty of us who have 'traditional' machines who would be sitting down having a cuppa ..........

maybe even a few seconds before you ( faster grinder)..

I'd hope so too I watch the experts with envy and wonder how many cups they've pounded out in their time to get that good. My thanks to your good self for your responses to my posts (and those who've been years in the coffee trade) I certainly don't have all the answers, just another opinion.

There's plenty of things I buy or envy for good engineering, but when I ghosted this forum and watched video's of people making their coffee on a traditional machine I knew it wouldn't work in my house. A full auto seemed soulless so I have a happy medium (and a great cuppa)

Cheers,
CH

[Caffeineholic]

Caffeineholic: Thanks! The Oracle looks great again, but how about cleaning the grinder?

My experience is the with the grinder being attached to the boilers it's a little more complex to empty out as you can't tip it over. However the grinder looks the same as the smart grinders so you can open up the top and pop out the first plate and brush it out, I vac it as it sometimes doesn't seat easily if there's grinds there.

I run the portafilter in place to flush the last of the grinds through and lift it to the right again to turn it off when the grinder speeds up as the beans run out.

The tamp fan is magnetic and the brush simply has a stronger magnet so its easy to grab and dust off. Seating it is sometimes 20 seconds as you have to spin it to find the right spot but it's sucked into place with the magnet when it seats properly so that's obvious

[Barry_Duncan]

the only grinders ive used that seem to have almost no grind retention are the malkonig vario and smart grinder

They both have a vertical chute from the burrs to the basket while many other grinders have a chute at about 45 degrees that retains grinds.

Barry

[timdimdom]

but how about cleaning the grinder? I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine that there would be some residue left in there after each grind, which would then get into the next cup. I personally wouldn't care, but I guess if someone wants to compare beans, it might make a big difference.

every grinder has residue. its up to the operator to apply what routine he/she is willing to put up with to clear out the residual grinds for the next shot, or whether he/she is just willing to ignore it.
most people will do a purge grind and dump about 3-4g of coffee before grinding what they want.
others will get a brush and bush out what is in the chute, then rune the grinder again to clear out whats in the vanes, and brush the chute again.

the only grinders ive used that seem to have almost no grind retention are the malkonig vario and smart grinder

[Barry_Duncan]

Caffeineholic: Thanks! The Oracle looks great again, but how about cleaning the grinder? I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine that there would be some residue left in there after each grind, which would then get into the next cup.

To quote Kat Brazier from Breville, on Breville Oracle Owners Thread BES980XL Page 2, number 80.

“The Oracle comes with a brush that can reach all the way up to the end of the chute inside the Auto Grinder/Tamper. That is of course after you remove the tamper fan & give it a brush off.”

Barry

[cimota]

Looks like my posts always end up in the wrong place, but thank you very much everyone!
Things are a little clearer to me now, I think.
And Yelta, I couldn't agree more, except not everyone seems to agree what "keeping it simple" means.

[cimota]

I'm very happy with my oracle. Not being a long term snob I haven't mastered all the coffee skills on a traditional machine which from reading the forums here takes time to get consistent. That seems to be important skill to master if you want to compare beans.

For me, the oracle provides that consistency and I'm free to mess with different beans and my corretto roasting rig. I was looking for a good machine that let me fiddle with settings when I wanted but did the hard stuff most of the time. The oracle does that very well and truthfully I don't mess its settings that much. I do play with a lot of different beans though

Yes it's an appliance, but Breville seem to have plenty of skin in the game convincing people they at serious with the oracle, they even came to my house to show me how to use it. While people are messing round with scales and tamp mats, I'm having a cuppa. Each to his or her own.

Caffeineholic: Thanks! The Oracle looks great again, but how about cleaning the grinder? I hope I'm wrong, but I imagine that there would be some residue left in there after each grind, which would then get into the next cup. I personally wouldn't care, but I guess if someone wants to compare beans, it might make a big difference.

[cimota]

timdimdom, thank you very much! That definitely helped. Off to look at grinders again.

[cimota]

Sorry, I meant of course the best possible equipment within their budget. That's why I posted here in the $1500 - $3000 thread. Thanks for your reply!

[Yelta]

Interesting post, ch. The bits about mastering important coffee skills and messing around with scales 'n stuff.

There are plenty of us who have 'traditional' machines who would be sitting down having a cuppa ..........

maybe even a few seconds before you ( faster grinder).

All the guff about scales 'n stuff can be very misleading for newbies, so it's interesting to see how it's affected your perception.

Grind, dose, tamp, pull shot. That's how it's done in my house; the k.i.s.s. principle.

Scales 'n stuff works for some but is not a prerequisite for great coffee. :-D

Glad you're enjoying your oracle.

Not sure how many times the mantra needs to be repeated CD "keep it simple"

Remember my training days,"tell them what your going to tell them, tell them, then tell em what you just told em" (Aristotle)

The Monty Python team had a few thoughts on Aristotle, and others.

(Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle, a lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed!)