VBM Piccolo - Dirt coming out of steam wand

[twwen2]

I swear some people write my username as "tween2" just to take the piss

I'll let you know what the machine is like once I've set it up and used it again, but as Chris says it seems to have simply needed a descale and a decent clean.

[mmmcoffee]

That's awesome news tween2 that's the power of quality professionals!! Great work Chris!!!!

[TC]

twwen2 has been a tad slow in collecting it. He's in today to grab it.

Wasn't too bad. We ran a descale and boiler flush and serviced it. It's all happy and well.

[mmmcoffee]

Have you got it back yet?? What was wrong??

[twwen2]

Not sure what all the fuss is about really - it all comes down to how much risk you're willing to take on board. There will always be a market for used items when people can get them for less than half the cost of retail. And by taking some sensible steps (e.g. buying an item with a known history from a reputable seller, physical inspection prior to sale etc), a buyer can usually minimise their risk to a point. Of course there's always the possibility of something going wrong, and that's when the risk equation comes to a head - what are the consequences in dollars and inconvenience? In this case, the price on the used item was low enough to justify the risk - even with this servicing I'm still going to come out well ahead of where I would be if I purchased one brand new. And the time/hassle of getting things looked at and fixed doesn't bother me; this is a backup machine at this stage.

If I was to look at spending thousands on a HX or DB machine, I'd be more inclined to purchase a brand new one - the dollars at stake are much higher and for me, this tips the risk equation a bit too far for comfort. And then of course there's the pride-of-ownership thing of having a shiny brand new toy; don't underestimate this!

[tayal01]

Of course as you sell new machines

Where do you think all the second hand machines come from? They were once purchased brand new.

[Dragunov21]

Realistically it depends on the following factors:

- Can I determine the likelihood of a given thing going wrong from pre-sale inspection?
- Can I fix the remaining potential problems myself?
- How much is my time worth? (Are you time rich/poor? Perhaps you enjoy spannering on things)
- Can I afford the time/parts to diagnose and fix the worst likely scenario?

I am (was) time-rich, and apprentice-with-a-mortgage poor, with a background in process control, so getting cheap used gear and fixing/modifying it to make it into something better was a great option. If I had to pay someone like Coffee_Machinist to do it, I would probably have been better off just hitting up Chris for a GS3.

[Bames]

Chris there shouldn't really be any element of risk buying 2nd hand if the seller is upfront about the state of the machine.

There's always the straw that breaks the camel's back. Any part of a machine that breaks is always working fine one minute, then gone poop the next. The owner can be 100% upfront as to the exact condition of a machine, and there's always the possibility it can go bang a day, week, year or decade later.

Buying new gives you a warranty and an assurance, not that nothing will go wrong, but that if something does, within a certain period of time, it will get fixed without you having to pay for it.

For 2nd hand machines - absolutely caveat emptor. But there's nothing wrong with that. I've bought a few, fixed them up when something has gone wrong, sold them on disclosing all I knew about the machine, to the best of my knowledge, at the time. It's up to the buyer to figure out if they want it or not on the info they have - not just the info the seller gives, but also their own research.

It's all about what you pay - but what you pay is not just money. When you buy new it costs high money, but costs low risk. When you buy 2nd hand, it costs lower money, but costs more risk. The older the machine, the more the equation swings. Just depends how much risk you're happy to pay.

[TC]

Of course as you sell new machines

No- it's because we service 2nd hand machines purchased by CS'ers to get them working as the purchasers would desire.

If you can purchase 2nd hand from any of the usual used places and get a warranty from the seller, good luck to you.

[Dragunov21]

Of course as you sell new machines

It's not like he's saying "don't buy used", he's saying "if you buy used, there are risks and if you value a completely trouble-free experience then you will need to buy new/warranted"

[diode123]

Of course as you sell new machines

[TC]

Chris there shouldn't really be any element of risk buying 2nd hand if the seller is upfront about the state of the machine.

Sorry- I disagree. A machine otherwise in perfect working condition post service sits idle for many months? There's still going to be maintenance. My opinion remains the same. You want warranty, you buy new- otherwise, caveat emptor.

[jamesjames]

"...shouldn't really be any element of risk" - there'll always be some risk if someone is trying to offload something they do not want any more.

[Dragunov21]

The risk is that there is no ability to enforce any implied warranty of fitness you thought you were entitled to, unless they've signed something to warrant it against malfunction for x weeks following purchase, and no one is going to (well, should) be silly enough to do so.

[diode123]

Rubbish. You buy 2nd hand at your own risk. Not prepared to take the risk? Buy new with warranty.

Chris there shouldn't really be any element of risk buying 2nd hand if the seller is upfront about the state of the machine.