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Is It Worth Putting A PID On A Rocket Giotto?

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  • Is It Worth Putting A PID On A Rocket Giotto?

    Indeed, that is the question. I have just bought a 2009 Giotto and being a bit of a DIY nut was wondering if it is worth slapping a PID on it or is the temp control already pretty good? It's such a massive upgrade from my old machine that the coffee I'm making is awesome anyway but you know, I have to ask

  • #2
    cmotd- I have never tried a Giotto with a PID, however I have a Giotto Premium and I get superb shots from it each and every time. Personally I wouldn't bother, but there may be those that have made the addition and can comment on the benefits.

    What sort of grinder do you have? In my opinion the quality of the grinder is probably the most influential variable when using the Giotto.

    Cheers

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    • #3
      Increased stability? I'd say so, looks like they went to PID for the Giotto V3, but it's an HX machine, so you won't get something that allows you to easily modify brew temp, just something that is very stable.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
        Increased stability? I'd say so, looks like they went to PID for the Giotto V3, but it's an HX machine, so you won't get something that allows you to easily modify brew temp, just something that is very stable.


        The Giotto (without PID) is also very stable. I have never done any flushing that some suggest is necessary and the first shot is as good as the second is as good as the third, and this is every time, not hit and miss. Maybe I just got lucky with mine?

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        • #5
          Its been well discussed before, so I am probably just parroting.

          What do you want o achieve with the PID? If its to chase specific temps, waste of time..get a double boiler.

          Whats the dead band on your pressure stat? 0.2 - 0.3 bar?

          PID may chase down a specific temp better, giving you slightly less of a dead band on boiler pressure. But will there be a difference once it goes through the big chunk of brass in e61 group?

          Be interesting to know if a PID would end up more energy efficient in the long run?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gavisconi007 View Post
            The Giotto (without PID) is also very stable. I have never done any flushing that some suggest is necessary and the first shot is as good as the second is as good as the third, and this is every time, not hit and miss. Maybe I just got lucky with mine?
            Not necessarily, I'm certainly not saying it's unstable in stock trim (and I wouldn't know); was mostly pointing out that it won't translate into an on-the-fly adjustable system like on an SBDU or DB.

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            • #7
              The PID will not affect brew temp stability at all.
              If your pstat goes, think about it then. Otherwise leave as is

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              • #8
                "If you like it then you should have put a PID on it"

                Not really, just couldn't resist!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gavisconi007 View Post
                  What sort of grinder do you have? In my opinion the quality of the grinder is probably the most influential variable when using the Giotto.

                  Cheers
                  I have a Cunill "No Bel" which is a huge beast cafe grinder with the working parts mounted on a spring chassis to reduce noise. I think it's a rare creature, haven't seen it mentioned on here anywhere. As for the other questions, I guess I'm just interested in getting the right water temp

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                  • #10
                    The PID probably wont do anything to improve the shot quality,..
                    ..but it will definitely allow you to SEE what the boiler temperature is ( as opposed to what pressure it is at) and allow you to change that temperature very easily without opening up the machine and twiddling inside.
                    Not for me , but some folk mess about with fine temperature adjustments to suit different bean/roast combo's.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Steve82 View Post
                      Its been well discussed before, so I am probably just parroting.

                      What do you want o achieve with the PID? If its to chase specific temps, waste of time..get a double boiler.

                      Whats the dead band on your pressure stat? 0.2 - 0.3 bar?

                      PID may chase down a specific temp better, giving you slightly less of a dead band on boiler pressure. But will there be a difference once it goes through the big chunk of brass in e61 group?

                      Be interesting to know if a PID would end up more energy efficient in the long run?
                      Guess what determines the temperature of that big chunk of brass...

                      A 0.2 - 0.3 bar deadband could be ~4°C. The relationship between boiler temperature and brew temp is more variable with a HX (because it is affected by flowrate), but it still has an influence.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MrJack View Post
                        Guess what determines the temperature of that big chunk of brass... .
                        The average temperature of the boiler, which is doing it's thing fast enough that the group temperature should not fluctuate.

                        It will affect the water temp discharging from the HX piping, but I'd question how significant that fluctuation is at the shower screen..

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by blend52 View Post
                          The PID probably wont do anything to improve the shot quality,..
                          ..but it will definitely allow you to SEE what the boiler temperature is ( as opposed to what pressure it is at) and allow you to change that temperature very easily without opening up the machine and twiddling inside.
                          Not for me , but some folk mess about with fine temperature adjustments to suit different bean/roast combo's.
                          You would need a thermofilter to be able to accurately set your discharge temp; the relationship between HX temp change and discharge temp change is not 1:1

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                          • #14
                            Ok seriously. Again. A PID will reduce the fluctuations in STEAM boiler temp. It will do very little if anything to your shot temp and stability.
                            What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to achieve a very slightly more responsive steam boiler recovery? Then sure, PID it.
                            Are you trying to achieve a specific shot temp and intra-shot temp stability? Borrow a scace and play around with HX restrictors. That is really the only way to affect significant change and stability. There have been super shot stable giottos and other HXs for years before PIDs.
                            Are you trying to achieve the ability to change brew temp? Get a DB. Trying to get a consistent and repeatable shot temp variance using steam boiler temp is not really possible.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bames View Post
                              Are you trying to achieve the ability to change brew temp? Get a DB.
                              I agree with Bames... this is why I moved from the ECM Technika to the Profitec 700.

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