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  • #16
    Re: Which machine should I buy?

    Forgot...probably the only thing I consider a negative re the giotto is that I think the pump is noisy - then again, its a muscle machine..lol

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    • #17
      Re: Which machine should I buy?

      Originally posted by Dennis link=1176940302/15#15 date=1177058672
      Forgot...probably the only thing I consider a negative re the giotto is that I think the pump is noisy - then again, its a muscle machine..lol
      Good thing you purchased a Giotto, Dennis...You wanna hear some of the Minores in comparison....

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      • #18
        Re: Which machine should I buy?

        The Leva doesnt seem too loud.

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        • #19
          Re: Which machine should I buy?

          Originally posted by Wushoes link=1176940302/0#7 date=1176989354
          where did lucas post go....*oohhh ahhhh* scary! lol
          LOL; I actually deleted it myself because it got the wrong message across. Chris must have been posting his reply as I deleted it. Seeing as it is now enshrined in the internet, I have no choice but to explain what I mean. I think that the best way to introduce what I wanted to get across is by revisiting my reply to someones assertion that dual boilers are the best:

          "Dual boiler," when used in the exceptionally broad manner above, is just another buzz word. Were starting to see more and more dual boiler machines around ... does anyone seriously think that the kitchenaid machine would be any good? Why not buy two gaggias and put them side-by-side? Dual boiler, but in two different machines. Will either of these perform anywhere near as well as a synesso or a hotrodded marzocco? No. Ive only used a few domestic dual-boiler machines. Some were OK, I thought that one of them delivered far less clarity of flavour than a HX that I had used not too long ago. I havent used any that blew me away, but, like I said, I havent used very many at all. All that I want to point out is that its not necessarily true to say DB>HX.

          Similarly, all HXs are not created equal. There are a myriad of different factors at play; thermosyphon restrictors, flow restrictors, hx inlet length, boiler size, basket, water distribution ... Unfortunately, I think that its more or less impossible to judge how these things perform just from a statistics page on the internet alone, which will not mention most of these factors.
          The original discussion is here.

          What I wanted to say is that there are few people who get an opportunity to try out multiple "prosumer" class machines that look similar on paper. This gives them little opportunity to get a feel for what the different features that arent listed on the spec sheets actually do. I dont think that I have ever really seen a discussion of negatives of machines that revolves around whats in the cup. I think that a big part of this is because we all have individual preferences and people tend to get used to what their machine produces. Its actually quite a funny exercise to try to relate peoples taste preferences back to their machines. But I deleted my post because this would just open up another "Sunbeam vs Silvia" type discussion, which I have no interest in participating in.

          Suffice to say that Im glad that there are people like Chris around who can offer advice from experience.

          Cheers,

          Luca

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          • #20
            Re: Which machine should I buy?


            I agree. Dual boiler is a buzzword that doesnt equal La Marzocco or Synesso. These machines are engineered to perform far beyond the simple fact that they have dual boilers. The saturated group is one factor that is above and beyond most machines (and the fact that the saturated group is at the TOP of the boiler - this makes a huge difference).

            Cheers,

            Mark.

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            • #21
              Re: Which machine should I buy?

              Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1176940302/15#16 date=1177071605
              Originally posted by Dennis link=1176940302/15#15 date=1177058672
              Forgot...probably the only thing I consider a negative re the giotto is that I think the pump is noisy - then again, its a muscle machine..lol
              Good thing you purchased a Giotto, Dennis...You wanna hear some of the Minores in comparison....

              Ive come to love the pump noise of my Minore :-*

              Its rather comforting to hear it pumping away [smiley=evil.gif]


              Belinda

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              • #22
                Re: Which machine should I buy?

                I have had my giotto premium for 3 years now and has never seen a service shop and has performed flawlessly from day 1 (except for 1 minor misshap which was my fault and easily fixed by myself also)
                I havent tried the others so cant comment on them.

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                • #23
                  Re: Which machine should I buy?

                  Hi
                  Some of my learings for what its worth..
                  I went with the Minore II, It was a close decision for me between the Giotto premiums beauty and quality of finish and the technical (and learn to love aesthetics) attribues of the Minore.
                  However I made a mistake!!!!! The Minore is fantastic however I purchased on price (as I did my own research and purchased new over the internet) and forgot about the old face to face customer service... DooH!

                  When a small hose blew on the Minore II after a couple of shots, I tried fixing myself but the flared connection failed to hold..
                  After many (many) attempts to contact someone I finally got onto the Expobar team via sales@expobar.com.au and a tech sent me a new "improved fitting" (again after many follow ups with them too)

                  My lesson? Product support should be a significant consideration... I am utterly impressed with the Minore II but the service I recieved at online retail and distributor level was (and I must state in this instance and a few other enquiries Ive had with them) less than impressive. (I am still seeking product information from them for their range after my 4th attempt)

                  Go through one of their distributor /retailers........ They are worth the margin they make

                  ps. No I dont retail any equipment or know anyone who does

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                  • #24
                    Re: Which machine should I buy?

                    Thats why we keep recommending the site sponsors.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Which machine should I buy?

                      Absolutely. Its so easy to buy on price alone, which is great until something goes wrong. Then its like, "Oh Chris, remember me, the guy who saves 5 bucks by not buying from you? Err, like to help me out of my mess MATE ole buddy ole pal?". Support the system that supports you.

                      Price doesnt equal perfection. Even Daimlers have problems.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Which machine should I buy?

                        Too true Greg,

                        No one considers the cost of support when they buy items....(not just coffee machines).... looking for the cheapest price...

                        But when things go pear shaped .... the cost of that support is priceless!! :-[

                        It costs quite a bit of time (read dollars) to provide quality support and that is the first thing the discount sellers dispense with.... and if you are lucky and you dont have any problems you might be OK.... but for most- you get what you pay for - and you didnt pay for support. :-/

                        The site sponsors (and other responsible and professional retailers) factor in the cost of support into their price..... and the little extra you pay is very cheap insurance against a manufacturing (or end user ) problem.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Which machine should I buy?

                          Easy fellas I thought I was agreeing with you and have only just joined the CS forum so was unaware of your "sponsors"

                          Im not rich and was lucky enough to have worked as a hospitality tech so in my case...The differnce of well over $300+ on a $2k machine made it more compelling.. I tried a local retailer first but wasnt convinced with the service.

                          My other point being the lack of follow up at "product support level" by the company who brought the machines in was a different experince than I had anticipated......

                          Motto.... Always buy for "value" and never on "price" alone!

                          On a different note when I purchased a pullman tamper (yeh yeh I know a sponsor ) and it went missing in the post for 11 days, Greg went out of his way to resolve the problem and customer service (read genuine care) was exceptional.

                          Not really relevent here but the service was outstanding and worth mentioning.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Which machine should I buy?

                            Sorite Micro, not having a go at you particularly at all. I just know personally its easy for the dollar figure to loom large (especially when putting the case to the Minister of Domestic Finances!), but its people like us who are often on the receiving end of things gone wrong, so as much as possible we try to get the message out there.

                            Glad to know you were happy with the service you received by the way!

                            Greg

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                            • #29
                              Re: Which machine should I buy?

                              Originally posted by Thundergod link=1176940302/0#3 date=1176948183
                              jazzy_boy I have the Expobar Leva and am happy with it.
                              Its been 9 months now and I still think Ill never need to upgrade.
                              The Minores electronics didnt interest me but everyone has different requirements and its features may suit you.
                              I have no experience with the Giotto but it does look good.

                              (Type Giotto Premium into Google Images and you get Loveys avatar first. ;D )

                              Chris did me a great deal on my Leva and is very good at working out what you want / need.

                              Di Bartoli is also a good option. Ive enjoyed popping in for a coffee with Renzo and Ofra and theyll also look after you.

                              Good luck with whichever one you decide on.
                              Happy to hear it is still going strong. I remember when you pmd me asking for details. I will have to say again that value for money you cant go past the expobar leva. A year and a half later and I still love mine.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Which machine should I buy?

                                Yep.
                                Id only had it 2 weeks when I asked how yours had been going.

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