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Profitec 500 versus ECM T IV Profi

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    I'd go for the vibe pump over the rotary because I prefer the slower ramp up in brew pressure.
    Hey Charlie, is this something that is noticeable enough to make a difference for the average brewer, or is it something that you notice cause you're in with these machines day in day out? What's the win when it comes to a more steady increase in pressure? More forgiving for a less than perfect puck?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by readeral View Post
      Hey Charlie, is this something that is noticeable enough to make a difference for the average brewer, or is it something that you notice cause you're in with these machines day in day out? What's the win when it comes to a more steady increase in pressure? More forgiving for a less than perfect puck?
      More forgiving for a less than perfect puck is a good way to think about it. How noticeable this might be is hard to quantify though. My main point is that it is not necessarily the case that a rotary pump machine is always a better option than a vibe pump machine.

      charlie

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      • #18
        Originally posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
        More forgiving for a less than perfect puck is a good way to think about it. How noticeable this might be is hard to quantify though. My main point is that it is not necessarily the case that a rotary pump machine is always a better option than a vibe pump machine.

        charlie
        I might have to drop in and speak to you about it pretty keen on one of these machines and trying to wrap my head around the pump options (given one needs to decide one way or the other)

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        • #19
          Seems this is a common fork in the road I think. For consideration:

          - Pressure gauge location: At the top seems easier than near the drip tray. Watching many youtube videos and the steam and vapor clouds up gauges close to the drip tray
          - Square corners vs. rounded corners: ECM are rounded, Profitec are less rounded.
          - Lever vs. Knob: Profitec use knobs, ECM are lever action. Lever seems easier to use but Profitec have spring compressed valves which mean you don't need to move the knob much. I like the idea of a lever.
          - Welding of the drip tray vs. single piece manufacture: ECM use a single piece of metal (search on google using the phrase "ecm manufacture whole latte" and click the second video in the video list to see the insides), whereas Profitec are welded (search youtube for whole latte love's video on the Profitec and you can see it).
          - Both are pressure adjustable, but ECM seems to be able to do this without removing the cover whereas I think you have to remove the cover with the Profitec.
          - Noise of pump: I don't care about this because the noise of grinding coffee far outweighs the noise of a pump, but FWIW the Profitec has a well thought out and engineered mount for it Vib. pump. Probably doesn't matter if you are going rotary but I know little about both.
          - Cost: Much of a muchness.
          - Overall design: I like the look of the group handle from ECM, it's machined and matches the grouphead lever so it's aesthetically nice. Profitec however have done nice things with their knobs and the group handle to make them match too, so again much of a muchness.

          For me, the ECM is looking like the go but I cannot decide by looking over the web - will need to go and see it for myself to decide. Pity I'm 300km away!!

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          • #20
            That's a pretty decent comparison baileys considering you're doing it without seeing them! Some further info below:

            Originally posted by baileys2611 View Post
            Seems this is a common fork in the road I think. For consideration:

            - Pressure gauge location: At the top seems easier than near the drip tray. Watching many youtube videos and the steam and vapor clouds up gauges close to the drip tray
            - Square corners vs. rounded corners: ECM are rounded, Profitec are less rounded.
            - Lever vs. Knob: Profitec use knobs, ECM are lever action. Lever seems easier to use but Profitec have spring compressed valves which mean you don't need to move the knob much. I like the idea of a lever.
            - Welding of the drip tray vs. single piece manufacture: ECM use a single piece of metal (search on google using the phrase "ecm manufacture whole latte" and click the second video in the video list to see the insides), whereas Profitec are welded (search youtube for whole latte love's video on the Profitec and you can see it).
            The drip trays are constructed in exactly the same way with a small difference in the radius of the curves.

            Originally posted by baileys2611 View Post
            - Both are pressure adjustable, but ECM seems to be able to do this without removing the cover whereas I think you have to remove the cover with the Profitec.
            Yes, but just a note to clarify that you are talking about the brew pressure which should be set by your retailer and you shouldn't have to touch it again.
            Originally posted by baileys2611 View Post
            - Noise of pump: I don't care about this because the noise of grinding coffee far outweighs the noise of a pump, but FWIW the Profitec has a well thought out and engineered mount for it Vib. pump. Probably doesn't matter if you are going rotary but I know little about both.
            - Cost: Much of a muchness.
            - Overall design: I like the look of the group handle from ECM, it's machined and matches the grouphead lever so it's aesthetically nice. Profitec however have done nice things with their knobs and the group handle to make them match too, so again much of a muchness.


            For me, the ECM is looking like the go but I cannot decide by looking over the web - will need to go and see it for myself to decide. Pity I'm 300km away!!

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            • #21
              Thanks for that. **Groan** now I have less points to differentiate between the two. I guess one could purchase both and switch between machines on alternate days

              1st world problems.

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              • #22
                You need to get yourself along to Jet Black Espresso or another Sponsor's, to try them out for yourself and then make a decision. Only way to do it really...

                Mal.
                Last edited by Dimal; 1 September 2015, 11:51 PM.

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                • #23
                  Hi baileys2611.
                  When this thread first started i was also considering both machines.
                  I have since purchased the Profitec 500 only because it was the machine that first caught my attention. I have absolutely no doubt that I would be as equally happy if I had purchased the ECM.
                  Having used my new machine for a couple of months now, i would suggest that if pump type is not an issue, the biggest difference in every day use would be the different steam valves. That will be a personal choice and it would be great if you could try both if you get the opportunity.
                  Good luck with your choice, neither machine will disappoint.
                  Mal

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Brewster View Post
                    Hi baileys2611.
                    When this thread first started i was also considering both machines.
                    I have since purchased the Profitec 500 only because it was the machine that first caught my attention. I have absolutely no doubt that I would be as equally happy if I had purchased the ECM.
                    Having used my new machine for a couple of months now, i would suggest that if pump type is not an issue, the biggest difference in every day use would be the different steam valves. That will be a personal choice and it would be great if you could try both if you get the opportunity.
                    Good luck with your choice, neither machine will disappoint.
                    Mal
                    Stumbled across this and amused you were in exactly the same situation I am in now.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mtooler View Post
                      Stumbled across this and amused you were in exactly the same situation I am in now.
                      Yep, and eighteen months after purchase I still have the exact same opinion of these two great machines

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                      • #26
                        After overdosing on YouTube review clips and forum posts I am leaning towards the ECM T IV Profi.

                        I'd like to see one in the flesh but I am in the southern Gold Coast area and most of the CS sponsors are in Sydney or Melbourne. I think there is one in Brisbane... or have I missed one?

                        I know most of the sponsors deliver but does anyone know of outlets Gold Coast or south to Tweed that have them - and even better if they have toyshops like some of the sponsors where you can test?

                        My jury is still out on a new grinder.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I love these 'this widget vs that widget' threads. Sometimes it's the only way to narrow things down.

                          Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                          You need to get yourself along to Jet Black Espresso or another Sponsor's, to try them out for yourself and then make a decision. Only way to do it really...

                          Mal.
                          How right you are, Mal!

                          Unfortunately there's a tiny, malnourished sub-species of us lurking on Coffee Snobs (referred to only in hushed, mocking whispers) who, once we start mucking and stuffing around with espresso machines in person, begin ping-ponging and vacillating even more than we did online. Until the realisation hits that we'll be faffing about the store until sundown (unless we run for the nearest exit).

                          Some chap named Tommy Cooper once coined this phrase: "I used to be indecisive, but now I am not quite sure".

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by steve7 View Post
                            After overdosing on YouTube review clips and forum posts I am leaning towards the ECM T IV Profi.

                            I'd like to see one in the flesh but I am in the southern Gold Coast area and most of the CS sponsors are in Sydney or Melbourne. I think there is one in Brisbane... or have I missed one?

                            I know most of the sponsors deliver but does anyone know of outlets Gold Coast or south to Tweed that have them - and even better if they have toyshops like some of the sponsors where you can test?

                            My jury is still out on a new grinder.
                            Steve7, Silipo are at Southport.

                            http://coffeesnobs.com.au/sponsors/3...po-coffee.html

                            Their website shows both ECM T IV and the Pro 500.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The Vib pump on the Pro500 is so super quiet, I'd choose the Pro500 over the Tech anyday. See, I'm not so fond of the profi levers personally.

                              You COULD convince me if the rotary pump was in question... but I'd prefer to save those extra hundreds of dollars to buy accessories instead.

                              Good luck with your decision!

                              (ps. If a rotary pump is what you want, look at the Rocket Evo2 - IMO is the best rotary in that range)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I reckon the ECM T IV has it over the Evo2 for the extra .3L in boiler capacity, but you have a slightly taller machine for the privilege. I have a T IV in order to produce more coffees back to back (without tank woes) and so 300ml more boiler capacity in that regard is nothing to sniff at. I also like the levers, so had no problem getting the ECM. If anyone wanted rotary just for the quiet though, then the vibe of the Pro 500 is a no-brainer.

                                I've been using one (Pro 500) daily at work for the past few months, and the whole 'slow ramp' discussion further up the thread really is a thing. I've been noticing I need to work a little bit harder at home to get those sweet shots that I like, where at work it's far easier. The reasons given why "rotary is better" has nothing to do with quality of espresso. I've only really come to appreciate that fact after the extended use though.

                                FWIW, Rotary also doesn't mean no noise - on any machine. It's still a pump and it's still sends vibrations out - so stack those cups wrong (or don't weigh down the tank flap properly if it's a T IV) and you'll have enough rattle to rival any vibe pump. At that point, you're ahead if you buy the Pro 500.

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