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Profitec 500 versus ECM T IV Profi

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  • BalthazarG
    replied
    Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
    I understand that. When choosing machines I would spend many many hours reading online and many many hours discussing/debating with coffee mates. After a stupid amount of brain effort I would finally make a decision
    Makes it more fun though, right? And in doing all that comparing and ping-ponging, you learn about different features, and how they work regardless.

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  • BalthazarG
    replied
    Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
    ....narrows down to a point where more reading and video reviews just don't help. You just start going in circles.
    Hahaha, ain't it the truth, Paul? I was being dense on purpose.

    Whenever I think I've narrowed it down to two machines, I'll read something else that throws a spanner in the works. Then the merry-go-round cranks up for another dependable whirl.

    In some strange, twisted way, I suspect I enjoy the process of stalling/holding out and weighing the scales almost as much as being an adult and actually making a halfway intelligent decision. What-are-ya-gonna-do??

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  • BalthazarG
    replied
    I'll concede that, the Valexia frame/body looks way more heavy duty than other machines in this class.
    I love it! The drip tray's a tad pudgy, but so far it's one of my favourite looking machines on the market. I just hope it looks as good as (or even bette than) Chris's photo on the Talk Coffee website.

    You work out your deal breakers, compares your pros and cons as well as aesthetics and internal build (if relevant) and then you try to solve the best match/service/support quadratic...
    Indeed. The daft reality is that the majority of non-Coffee Snob punters don't (and don't want to) understand the internals, despite the fact that understanding the internals should take priority over aesthetics ("should" being the operative word). I happen to be interested in learning about them, but that's a different story altogether.

    Which is not to downplay the importance of aesthetics in people's minds - in fact, no matter how many circles I travel in when making comparisons, I always return to the look of the machine first and foremost. I can't help it, I guess my brain is wired that way (just like it's wired to not pick up the phone when certain people call).

    Good or bad, it's the bells and whistles that most consumers tick off on a shopping list of specs in order to fast track their decision. Except once they've chosen, most of those bells and whistles go flying out the window and are likely never used to any particular advantage (if at all).

    The question to ask: does that matter in the long run? Probably not.
    Last edited by BalthazarG; 12 January 2017, 03:41 PM.

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  • 2muchcoffeeman
    replied
    Originally posted by readeral View Post
    Suits me. May not suit the next guy...
    And that's it for me. Espresso machines are personal and what one bloke would choose and/or take home is not necessarily right for the next.

    You works out your deal breakers, compares your pros and cons as well as aesthetics and internal build (if relevant) and then you try to solve the best match/service/support quadratic...

    As I moved up the espresso machine ladder, each machine had qualities I liked and disliked. All but my Rancilio Audrey coped easily with any size gathering I threw at them.

    Beyond my 2003 Giotto which I tweaked, it became less about the coffee or how big the boilers were and more about design and what I desired at the time.

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  • readeral
    replied
    Bigger boiler might suit some. Suits me. May not suit the next guy - but it's not about bragging. You just gotta pick what you want. In the real world, what I care about is pulling 8 shots and steaming enough milk for them. And if it's between a rocket rotary and an ECM rotary I'd pick the ECM.
    I'll take a 4 cylinder over a 3 cylinder any day, so I can get to the shops and then bring that milk and a car full of mates home again The V8 is parked at my local cafe :P

    Leave a comment:


  • readeral
    replied
    Profitec 500 versus ECM T IV Profi

    Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman View Post
    I'm not so sure about that...Have you listened to an Izzo Valexia?

    The sound of flowing water is generally noisier than the pump....
    I'll concede that, the Valexia frame/body looks way more heavy duty than other machines in this class.

    Leave a comment:


  • GunBarista
    replied
    Originally posted by readeral View Post
    I reckon the ECM T IV has it over the Evo2 for the extra .3L in boiler capacity, but you have a slightly taller machine for the privilege. I have a T IV in order to produce more coffees back to back (without tank woes) and so 300ml more boiler capacity in that regard is nothing to sniff at. I also like the levers, so had no problem getting the ECM. If anyone wanted rotary just for the quiet though, then the vibe of the Pro 500 is a no-brainer.

    I've been using one (Pro 500) daily at work for the past few months, and the whole 'slow ramp' discussion further up the thread really is a thing. I've been noticing I need to work a little bit harder at home to get those sweet shots that I like, where at work it's far easier. The reasons given why "rotary is better" has nothing to do with quality of espresso. I've only really come to appreciate that fact after the extended use though.

    FWIW, Rotary also doesn't mean no noise - on any machine. It's still a pump and it's still sends vibrations out - so stack those cups wrong (or don't weigh down the tank flap properly if it's a T IV) and you'll have enough rattle to rival any vibe pump. At that point, you're ahead if you buy the Pro 500.
    And I couldn't agree more, but when you're talking rotary pump then assuming that you're going to plumb it in, I feel that the Evo2 has a better design:
    Taller feet, Waste drain ready to go with a waste catch/reserve, downwards pointing tap for instance.

    I also appreciate the Evo2 more for it's styling and switches.

    Again, just personal pref. otherwise these two (Evo2 and Tech IV Rotary) are just so similar, it really comes down you what you like.

    Otherwise, if you're not plumbing-in and aren't too hung up with the 'ramping' then go the Profitec 500 all the way.

    Good espresso starts with you, not the machine.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2muchcoffeeman
    replied
    Yes and no....Do you need a V8 car to get to the local to buy some milk? Nup....

    Boiler size becomes a case of bragging rights beyond a certain point and I reckon it's circa 1.4L for HX gear. In the real world, what you care about is can you pull two shots and does the machine have the steam capacity to texture the milk for them. So long as the answer is yes, the rest is unused. Steam pressure will be dictated by valves and the size of the holes in the tip as well as other hydraulics.

    If you were to look at a VBM Domobar Junior v and Evo for example, the VBM gets the milk texture done more rapidly. The Evo has extra capacity though.

    Tank size? Again, beyond a point, irrelevant. I'm currently using a Vesuvius via tank. I refill it every day regardless of how much I have used as the water has spent 24 hours sitting hot and stagnant . For mine, it's stale.

    Originally posted by readeral View Post
    FWIW, Rotary also doesn't mean no noise - on any machine.
    I'm not so sure about that...Have you listened to an Izzo Valexia?

    The sound of flowing water is generally noisier than the pump....

    Leave a comment:


  • readeral
    replied
    I reckon the ECM T IV has it over the Evo2 for the extra .3L in boiler capacity, but you have a slightly taller machine for the privilege. I have a T IV in order to produce more coffees back to back (without tank woes) and so 300ml more boiler capacity in that regard is nothing to sniff at. I also like the levers, so had no problem getting the ECM. If anyone wanted rotary just for the quiet though, then the vibe of the Pro 500 is a no-brainer.

    I've been using one (Pro 500) daily at work for the past few months, and the whole 'slow ramp' discussion further up the thread really is a thing. I've been noticing I need to work a little bit harder at home to get those sweet shots that I like, where at work it's far easier. The reasons given why "rotary is better" has nothing to do with quality of espresso. I've only really come to appreciate that fact after the extended use though.

    FWIW, Rotary also doesn't mean no noise - on any machine. It's still a pump and it's still sends vibrations out - so stack those cups wrong (or don't weigh down the tank flap properly if it's a T IV) and you'll have enough rattle to rival any vibe pump. At that point, you're ahead if you buy the Pro 500.

    Leave a comment:


  • GunBarista
    replied
    The Vib pump on the Pro500 is so super quiet, I'd choose the Pro500 over the Tech anyday. See, I'm not so fond of the profi levers personally.

    You COULD convince me if the rotary pump was in question... but I'd prefer to save those extra hundreds of dollars to buy accessories instead.

    Good luck with your decision!

    (ps. If a rotary pump is what you want, look at the Rocket Evo2 - IMO is the best rotary in that range)

    Leave a comment:


  • LFM60
    replied
    Originally posted by steve7 View Post
    After overdosing on YouTube review clips and forum posts I am leaning towards the ECM T IV Profi.

    I'd like to see one in the flesh but I am in the southern Gold Coast area and most of the CS sponsors are in Sydney or Melbourne. I think there is one in Brisbane... or have I missed one?

    I know most of the sponsors deliver but does anyone know of outlets Gold Coast or south to Tweed that have them - and even better if they have toyshops like some of the sponsors where you can test?

    My jury is still out on a new grinder.
    Steve7, Silipo are at Southport.

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/sponsors/3...po-coffee.html

    Their website shows both ECM T IV and the Pro 500.

    Leave a comment:


  • BalthazarG
    replied
    I love these 'this widget vs that widget' threads. Sometimes it's the only way to narrow things down.

    Originally posted by Dimal View Post
    You need to get yourself along to Jet Black Espresso or another Sponsor's, to try them out for yourself and then make a decision. Only way to do it really...

    Mal.
    How right you are, Mal!

    Unfortunately there's a tiny, malnourished sub-species of us lurking on Coffee Snobs (referred to only in hushed, mocking whispers) who, once we start mucking and stuffing around with espresso machines in person, begin ping-ponging and vacillating even more than we did online. Until the realisation hits that we'll be faffing about the store until sundown (unless we run for the nearest exit).

    Some chap named Tommy Cooper once coined this phrase: "I used to be indecisive, but now I am not quite sure".

    Leave a comment:


  • steve7
    replied
    After overdosing on YouTube review clips and forum posts I am leaning towards the ECM T IV Profi.

    I'd like to see one in the flesh but I am in the southern Gold Coast area and most of the CS sponsors are in Sydney or Melbourne. I think there is one in Brisbane... or have I missed one?

    I know most of the sponsors deliver but does anyone know of outlets Gold Coast or south to Tweed that have them - and even better if they have toyshops like some of the sponsors where you can test?

    My jury is still out on a new grinder.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brewster
    replied
    Originally posted by mtooler View Post
    Stumbled across this and amused you were in exactly the same situation I am in now.
    Yep, and eighteen months after purchase I still have the exact same opinion of these two great machines

    Leave a comment:


  • mtooler
    replied
    Originally posted by Brewster View Post
    Hi baileys2611.
    When this thread first started i was also considering both machines.
    I have since purchased the Profitec 500 only because it was the machine that first caught my attention. I have absolutely no doubt that I would be as equally happy if I had purchased the ECM.
    Having used my new machine for a couple of months now, i would suggest that if pump type is not an issue, the biggest difference in every day use would be the different steam valves. That will be a personal choice and it would be great if you could try both if you get the opportunity.
    Good luck with your choice, neither machine will disappoint.
    Mal
    Stumbled across this and amused you were in exactly the same situation I am in now.

    Leave a comment:

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