(Giotto) Puddling Premium Problem

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

Pasted from old thread:
Problem of leaking still going on. But I was nicely told by my service folk not to expect Ye ol' Rocket to perform like a commercial.
I made three double extractions straight off. Then when I started to steam the milk the boiler pressure zeroed and water came out. In amongst this water appeared under the unit. i stopped and waited and the boiler pressuer increased and soon I was steaming the six cups of milk with no problems. I did not think that 3 double extractions would cool the water that much in an HX machine. And why the pressure stayed up until I opened the steam valve. The next double shot was okay and I steamed the milk as normal, then the next double was okay with no water puddling. My fear is that the solenoid that opens for the boiler top up stayed open for the brew so cold water was being pumped into the boiler. This might then open the boiler opv to release pressure and so water came out.
Going to experiment with slower extractions. Also if water comes out of the steam pipe again to see if the flow increases if I open the brew handle with a puck still in the group - which will point to a faulty solenoid. After an extraction I will vent some hot water to see if the water level is replenished as expected if not then the boiler is well over it correct level.
I use this machine for a coffee time for folk at my work

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

Today:
I got the Rocket up to pressure.
Extracted one double shot
Turned on the steam for the milk - I got extremely wet steam.
Stopped steam.
Extracted 500ml from the hot water tap before the auto fill started
Waited until the boiler pressure was right
Turned on steam and had really dry invisible steam.
I did another extraction and steam - no problems.
Extracted 100 ml of hot water before auto fill started - which is about right.
I did another double extraction - no problems as above.
My findings are that the very first extraction seems to fill the boiler!
In the past my second follow on extraction added more water to the boiler and the boiler opv opened and release water.
In the past my third follow on extraction made a bigger puddle
The pressure in the boiler now was not steam but water a little compressed steam/air. So when the steam tap was opened I go water or watery steam.

"They never believed me"
I have no idea what may be causing this.

My work around from cold is the turn on, wait for pressure to build up. Extract 500ml of overfilled boiler water. Let the boiler pressure build up. Then test if the steam is dry. Then all will be well.

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

I have had advice and will act on that.

[mulquemi Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mulquemi]

dumiya,
I'm interested in what advice you are following to relieve you of this problem,is it simply technique or something more detailed?
Cheers,
Mick.

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

Mick,
More detailed. There could be three things at last
1 faulty auto fill boiler probe or wiring. This seems to operate correctly.
2 faulty solenoid that opens for auto fill but is closed for brew pumping or wiring - may be electrical but they hope mechanical that can be repaired as part may be difficult to source. Xxxxxxx the fault is most likely in this area.xxxx
3 unlikely but the water may be too pure for the probe to work. This has be eliminated.
4 unlikely to be a module control problem.
The Dimattina service thinks it sounds like a solenoid valve problem.
The unit is eight years old and I really don't want to start a 'rebuild' at this time. So if there is no simple and inexpensive solution I will retire it. Usually such units go for years but this one may not.

[mulquemi Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mulquemi]

dumiya,
Starting with the simple first:Auto fill probe.
As you well know,this controls where the pump provides water to your predetermined boiler water levels.Any detection failure will result in excess or insufficient boiler contents.
Simple job to remove the probe, (measure its present position)loosen nut and withdraw probe (remove connection wire(s)).Remove the white sleeve,give everything a good clean.
Examine the probe itself for pitting corrosion /scale buildup etc,emery cloth (fine) go over the full immersion length with emery and bring up to a clean/clear surface,check the electrical connection end for thoroughly clean connection.Once you do that ,reconnect it all again (adjust you actual probe level settings to your requirements).Don't forget to tighten the probe securing nut for correct fitting.
See how that changes things,I'm inclined to believe your difficulties lay with the water level controller module.
Good luck,
Cheers,
Mick.

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

I hope the fault is not in the module. I have replaced the original module with the updated Pro.ELind and mofified the wiring as outlined. The boiler switches eventually failed in that one. So it is now on its third module. I will not replace that if the the water sensor part is faulty. It shall be retired! I suspect you may be correct. It is with the service folk at the moment.
If it was all running well I might get $1200 but it is not worth spending a lot of money to fix it to sell it.
We will see what the service folk come up with.
Thank you for your thoughts.

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

I have received the Premium back. The report was that the auto fill solenoid value require cleaning and parts lubricated.
So I will run it until I am sure the problem has been fixed. Then as we will consider selling it it as we have replaced the unit at the top of the pile so it goes downward. How much? They were very nice

[Javaphile Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Javaphile]

Good to hear the pudding problem has been taken care of.

Ever since you started this thread every time I see it it scans as Premium Pudding Problem.


Java "Am I the only one?" phile

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

Giotto Premium made some superb coffee for eight devotees this morning. No drop in pressure, no puddles (puddings), great steam and nice extractions.
I do have a slight problem however --- too many Rockets !

[TC . Find all posts View Profile Close TC]

Great to hear dumiya,

These are terrific, robust machines and the fact that the early ones are nearing 20 years old now is testament to their quality.

Like grandpa's axe, bits get changed, but there's no reason that there should not be a whole heap of life left in your 2008.

Many more happy coffees

Chris

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

Chris,
thank you, good info, looks like my 10 year old watlow PIDded Silvia will be the one to go. After the Rockets it is just too hard to use.
I'll see if a coffee snob will buy it. Its not worth very much now.

[dumiya Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dumiya]

Quick note: the Rocket Premium is now making truly awesome coffee. I tried "Jersey Girl" milk today and it was brilliant.
So there were two problems. 1) a leaking opv pump valve fitting. 2) Leaking auto fill solenoid valve. Two at once made it hard to find. All good now.
It is staying in the stable.