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Giotto Rocket vs Breviile Oracle

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  • trentski
    replied
    As a rocket giotto owner I feel well placed to comment here. A machine upgrade won't give you what you are after unless there is something wrong with your machine.
    I have a compak k3 grinder and can make a flat white in less time than it takes to boil the jug for the wife's cup of tea.
    If you are after consistency and ease of use then don't change any of the variables. Use the same beans in the same due post roast date range. Adjust the grinder minimally, don't adjust your dose and tamp.
    Put milk in jug, grind, tamp, lock into machine, start pump, clear steam wand and start steaming, finish steaming, stop pump, clean wand, add milk to coffee, clean handle and group head, clean milk jug. Enjoy coffee.

    Ps. Your grinder has flat burrs not conical

    Leave a comment:


  • dumiya
    replied
    I also achieve excellent results from a Kony and R58
    But at work I also achieve excellent results with a M4D and Giotto Rocket Premium. The folk are super satisfied!
    As above consider a better grinder.
    I has been suggested in the forum the grinder should match the cost of the Espresso machine! Ouch! That is why we bought a Kony-e. Ouch. We have never regretted this purchase. Originally bought for the Premium It is now paired with the R58.

    Leave a comment:


  • pbarton
    replied
    The Oracle is an impressive machine from the comparison. That is an impressive level of automation. However, I achieve what I consider to be excellent results from a Rocket R58 and a Mazzer Kony. As with other's recommendations, you can achieve excellent coffees with not much effort with your existing machine and a good grinder. Invest in the grinder.

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Hi Ccl,

    The reason I suggested the grinders I did is that you can set grind size and then a predetermined grind time. This will allow you to work quickly, cleanly and remove the overwhelming majority of the variation you are experiencing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cafeconleche7
    replied
    Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
    Great advice Chris. Richard, don't underestimate the importance of a quality grinder.
    I use an ANFIM KS Grinder (direct grind on demand). Is that considered good enough quality??? Or would a Mini Mazzer be better??

    Leave a comment:


  • dumiya
    replied
    I had quite a learning curve. When I relaxed and did the timed extraction it came together. That is beans, grinder, tamp and using medicine measuring glasss to extract a total 54mls in 27 sec I got close to the taste I wanted. That is two glasses with 27ml in each. To sweeten the coffee I stop the shot at around 20 ml. I think the local marzocco 4G monster does this by selection for the lattes.
    I guess the Oracle approximates this automatically but most units like the Rocket, it does require some human involvement apart from drinking the result..

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    replied
    Originally posted by Cafeconleche7 View Post
    Different machines yes, but it seems people are still interested in comparing them...
    https://youtu.be/1-GYTJREc0c
    I look forward to their next installment, 'Which is better? A Horse or a Dolphin?'

    On top the useful advice above, if you find you have trouble dosing consistently, the use of digital scales (if only as a feedback mechanism) can help.

    Leave a comment:


  • artman
    replied
    The oracle is unique (and amazingly seems to accomplish automating some normally "artful" aspects - eg milk texturing), but as above it still needs user intervention in selecting grind, dose etc.

    As mentioned by Chris, a good grinder with dose control will make this aspect easier for you (you could even get the OCD distribution gadget to help?) and you can continue to use the machine you have.

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • Cafeconleche7
    replied
    Originally posted by artman View Post
    The rocket and oracle are almost polar opposites.

    You should be able to easily and repeatedly get ripper shots from your giotto. Perhaps invest a bit of time on some good training and you will be faster and get better results from your giotto than the oracle? I assume you are using decent/fresh beans and have a suitable grinder.

    Cheers
    Different machines yes, but it seems people are still interested in comparing them...
    https://youtu.be/1-GYTJREc0c

    Leave a comment:


  • Cafeconleche7
    replied
    Originally posted by skidquinn View Post
    Agree with artman. Very different machines.
    However, I suspect that you are expecting too much of a machine you can 'walk away' from.
    you should have no issue producing great coffee with the beans you mentioned. I suspect shortfalls in either the grinder or user.
    I also think some training courses using your rocket would be much more beneficial than a new breville.
    Unfortunately they are yet to build a machine that doesn't require at least some effort on the part of the user to create great coffee.
    Thanks for your feedback. I'm not sure that the Oracle is entirely a machine that you can just 'walk away from'? That would be more like a Jura or a Delonghi wouldn't it. The whole idea of the Oracle is that it is a hybrid aimed at the home barista. Whilst it has some automatic functions/benefits you still need to adjust numerous settings depending on the coffee. You can also use it entirely in manual mode...so it kind of gives you the best of both worlds. It might be worth pointing out that I haven't yet committed to buying this machine....just considering it. The in-store demo however was very impressive.

    Leave a comment:


  • artman
    replied
    The grind, dose and tamp you should be able to nail fairly easily. Likewise the milk. If you are willing to devote a bit of time to learn the above you will get great results.

    Granted the oracle is unique in giving "real" coffee fairly easily. It is quite complex, it will be interesting to see how they go longevity wise.

    Cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Welcome Cafeconleche7,

    FWIW, I don't think you need a new machine at all. I think that what you want/need is timed doserless grinder.

    Might I suggest you investigate grinders such as the Mazzer mini-e/super jolly-e, Macap M4D, Compak E5OD, Rocket Fausto et al..

    I suspect that one of these will solve 90% of your problems, leave a whole heap of cash in your pocket and deliver better coffee more consistently than the Oracle will- with far higher reliability for the machine/grinder combo.

    Good luck either way...

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • skidquinn
    replied
    Agree with artman. Very different machines.
    However, I suspect that you are expecting too much of a machine you can 'walk away' from.
    you should have no issue producing great coffee with the beans you mentioned. I suspect shortfalls in either the grinder or user.
    I also think some training courses using your rocket would be much more beneficial than a new breville.
    Unfortunately they are yet to build a machine that doesn't require at least some effort on the part of the user to create great coffee.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cafeconleche7
    replied
    Yes....Campos, Merlo, Di Bella. 500g at a time to keep beans fresh. Use a conical burr grinder (can't remember brand)

    Leave a comment:


  • Cafeconleche7
    replied
    I buy fresh beans (500g at a time) to maintain freshness, and clearly that's a big factor. I use a conical burr grinder also. However factors such as how much coffee I grind into the filter basket, how much I tamper, how much water is passed through etc etc means that it is hit and miss for me. The Rocket is a terrific machine, just maybe not for me. I guess what I like about the Oracle is the automatic dispensing and tampering of the coffee. I also like that you can place the milk jug under the wand, set your milk temp, level of froth and walk away. The result in the store was incredible.

    Leave a comment:

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