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Hx shootout - Profitec v Rocket v ECM v Lelit

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  • Hx shootout - Profitec v Rocket v ECM v Lelit

    Sorry for yet another, "what should I buy thread", but it is time for me to evolve from the dreaded capsules!

    After some research (and a brief chat with Charlie from JetBlack) I have settled on an Hx machine and I am looking at the $2500-3000 bracket (I'd rather spend a bit more now and get a machine I won't want to upgrade in 5years).

    The profitec pro 500 caught my attention, but the Rocket Appartamento looks funky and seems to be a similar price. Then again the Rocket Giotto PID V3 isn't much more.

    Now I see that the ECM IV Profi (non- rotary pump, right?) is in the same price ballpark.

    I have looked at the Lelit Mara, which is cheaper, but the build quality didn't seem quite as nice to me when compared directly to the Profitec 500.

    I know that the most likely response to my rambling is: "They are all great and will make great coffee when used properly", and that I should choose the one that I like the look/price of best.

    But . . . Are the build qualities and reliabilities equivalent? Or, does one company / model really stick out?

  • #2
    Originally posted by zeedok View Post
    Sorry for yet another, "what should I buy thread", but it is time for me to evolve from the dreaded capsules!

    After some research (and a brief chat with Charlie from JetBlack) I have settled on an Hx machine and I am looking at the $2500-3000 bracket (I'd rather spend a bit more now and get a machine I won't want to upgrade in 5years).

    The profitec pro 500 caught my attention, but the Rocket Appartamento looks funky and seems to be a similar price. Then again the Rocket Giotto PID V3 isn't much more.

    Now I see that the ECM IV Profi (non- rotary pump, right?) is in the same price ballpark.

    I have looked at the Lelit Mara, which is cheaper, but the build quality didn't seem quite as nice to me when compared directly to the Profitec 500.

    I know that the most likely response to my rambling is: "They are all great and will make great coffee when used properly", and that I should choose the one that I like the look/price of best.

    But . . . Are the build qualities and reliabilities equivalent? Or, does one company / model really stick out?
    The Profitec, Rockets and Lelit are all vibration pump only, the ECM Technika Profi IV comes in vibration or rotary option for your price range. The best thing you can do is have a play with them, generally one will stand out from the rest.

    Comment


    • #3
      I reckon The ECM Technika and the Profitec 500 are much for muchness and all 3 of the big brands listed have excellent build quality, internal layouts and serviceability. See my thoughts here on the ECM (and a bit on Profitec): http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...xperience.html

      Honestly, I was in JetBlack on Monday, and the 500 was pulling a shot, and it was so quiet - it's like it doesn't matter which pump it had! The only thing it lacks by having a vibe pump is the flexibility to plumb at some point. Those no crush valves are a dream and it's got plenty of steam pressure. I'd recommend chatting to Brad or Charlie and seeing if they'd be happy to put a Rocket out on the bench for you to play with and compare, but you can dig into this stuff heaps and waste a lot of time when the machines really are so comparable it comes down to what you'd like to see on your bench. *shrug*

      The PID on the Rocket is a bit of a red herring. A nice to have, but out of sight out of mind. You might make adjustments every so often, but it's definitely not a 'must have' feature. There are so many parameters under your control that a PID really only starts coming into it's own when you've really nailed your espresso recipe. It's been 18 months for me, and I've never got to a point where I wish I had a PID.

      In summary - if you were trying to break it down to some basic of differences -
      If you'll ever want to plumb OR if you like the toggle steam valves: ECM
      If not ever wanting to plumb AND you prefer rotary valves: Profitec (or Rocket)
      If you're tight for space: Lelit

      Also, I don't know if this is a thing for you or not, but I have an open plan kitchen, so it mattered what a machine looked like from the rear as well as the front...

      Comment


      • #4
        Great advice Al...

        Mal.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by zeedok View Post
          (I'd rather spend a bit more now and get a machine I won't want to upgrade in 5years).
          You should never say you wont want to use the U word, it has a way of getting you.

          Good luck with your decision.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everyone for the tips, and ***** for the link to your guide (which you will be glad to know that I have already read).

            It is reassuring to know that the Profitec/Rocket/ECM seem to be on a mechanic par -- leaving the vibe v rot pump issue aside.

            I guess I'm left thinking Alfa (Rocket) v Mercedes (Profitec / ECM)?

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            • #7
              Yes- you will be fine to choose whatever interface you like best...

              Enjoy...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by zeedok View Post

                I guess I'm left thinking Alfa (Rocket) v Mercedes (Profitec / ECM)?
                Not the best analogy. Rocket quality is way above that of Alfa Romeo. They all do pretty much the same thing and you would be happy with any of them the devil is in the detail and what you like the look of the most.

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                • #9
                  All the Italian machines from major manufacturers are similar. HX machines are made to be dead simple and are. The E61 heads can vary slightly in technical detail, boiler sizes differ. The major difference would be vibe versus rotary pump. Externally it is a matter of taste but again most of the machines look similar until you look closely. Some boilers are stainless, some copper. Most rotary pumps are still brass but can be stainless also to reduce the possibility of heavy metal contamination but also flavour taints.

                  The E61 was invented in 1961 so is over half a century old. The manufacturers have gotten the hang now of making them.

                  The main differences is who is promoting them in a particular country.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Great stuff -- thanks everyone. Planning a trip to JetBlack in the next couple of weeks -- sorry *****, they are very close to home.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Zeedok,

                      Don't forget that there's Di Bartoli in Bondi Junction that have a similar range of Heat Exchange machines in stock around the $2-3k mark.

                      The Profitec Pro 500, ECM IV Profi (Vibrating pump), Rocket Appartamento & Giotto Premium Plus PID are all available through Di Bartoli.

                      Personally, I love the look of the Rocket machines. But it's a tough pick. They are all beautiful machines, both aesthetically and performance wise. Definitely worth going into their store and checking them out in person to decide for yourself.


                      Originally posted by zeedok View Post
                      Sorry for yet another, "what should I buy thread", but it is time for me to evolve from the dreaded capsules!

                      After some research (and a brief chat with Charlie from JetBlack) I have settled on an Hx machine and I am looking at the $2500-3000 bracket (I'd rather spend a bit more now and get a machine I won't want to upgrade in 5years).

                      The profitec pro 500 caught my attention, but the Rocket Appartamento looks funky and seems to be a similar price. Then again the Rocket Giotto PID V3 isn't much more.

                      Now I see that the ECM IV Profi (non- rotary pump, right?) is in the same price ballpark.

                      I have looked at the Lelit Mara, which is cheaper, but the build quality didn't seem quite as nice to me when compared directly to the Profitec 500.

                      I know that the most likely response to my rambling is: "They are all great and will make great coffee when used properly", and that I should choose the one that I like the look/price of best.

                      But . . . Are the build qualities and reliabilities equivalent? Or, does one company / model really stick out?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Curious to know what people think of the Magica spec and price wise in comparison to the Pro 500 http://dibartoli.com.au/di-bartoli-magica/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                          Hi Matt,
                          The Profitec Pro 500 has it all the way. It's a very popular high end HX. Read about it here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...pro-500-a.html
                          I would steer well clear of the Bezzera Magica. It's a 1980s Commodore in the car analogy. Stick with better brands
                          Here's a Pro500 paired with a Q50P:
                          Some more details would be nice, "has it all the way" in which ways?.....Bezzera is a lesser brand because.... etc

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                            I would steer well clear of the Bezzera Magica. It's a 1980s Commodore in the car analogy. Stick with better brands
                            Crikey, big call there Paul! Bezzera is most certainly not a lesser brand.

                            "Stick with better brands" Bezzera is a highly respected brand name in the espresso industry with proven credentials, very reliable, with minimal electronics that will eventually fail.

                            Luigi Bezzera Patented the espresso process in 1901 History | Over 110 years impeccable pedigree.

                            The Magica is a domus Galatea in a plain stainless case, it will produce great shots time after time and, continue doing so for years with a minimal learning curve, and whats more its available for about $2750, maintenance is dead easy.

                            If your looking for a good looking, easy to use, reliable machine that will produce excellent coffee over many years buy a Bezzera, if your a machine geek looking for bells and whistles, there are plenty of others available.
                            Last edited by Yelta; 18 October 2016, 01:41 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm yet to meet a machine which "has it all the way" over any other machine.

                              Whilst I'm not a fan of Bezzera, they are bulletproof and well constructed. I don't sell them, but nothing I sell has it all the way over one...You'd otherwise question motive...

                              Just sayin'

                              Chris

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