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Hx shootout - Profitec v Rocket v ECM v Lelit

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  • #16
    Considering both are 1961 technology...

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    • #17
      "Has it all the way", "streets ahead" or "blowing other machines into the weeds" - everyone has their own little superfluous phrase.. and motives to go with it. Now it's up to Paul to back it up.

      [Just to clarify - the extra quotes above are statements made by sponsors other than * **** regarding another brand of machine. It's just part and parcel of a forum to have opinions, highlight ones own values, and to suggest machines that are largely comparable as superior. The best cure to this perfectly reasonable bias is to walk into a shop and play around with machines for yourself.]
      Last edited by readeral; 18 October 2016, 06:43 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by wattgn View Post
        Considering both are 1961 technology...
        Well the grouphead is, some of ther parts are more recent

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        • #19
          Originally posted by trentski View Post
          Well the grouphead is, some of ther parts are more recent
          Maybe, maybe not. About as basic as you can get, just a collection of solenoids, valves, switches pressure stat and gauge. I'd doubt even if the technology involved in any of those parts has changed since then. The double boiler models with electronics, yes definitely.

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          • #20
            Ah yes, electronics, the Achilles heel and life limiting factor of most contemporary machinery.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
              I would steer well clear of the Bezzera Magica. It's a 1980s Commodore in the car analogy. Stick with the better brands
              I wrote a very long reply to this but have decided to keep it to myself. I will just say, until a month or two ago you were spruiking a bezzera as the category killer and other such gushing cliches, I even seem to remember you had a strega on your bench for a while there when it was your flavour of the month.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                Wow.... words...."Has it all the way" is pretty broad and very open to interpretation.
                Yes. I interpreted it as "vastly superior" and suspect many others did too. We all know that is in fact not the case. It is one of many good options within this price bracket: e.g Rocket Espresso Giotto PID. There is no way it's vastly superior. Competitor and quite possibly near enough to equivalent yes, but superior? Nope.

                Ultimately, they're all just lines. Sometimes I'm pretty good at reading between them.

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                • #23
                  Profitec Pro 500
                  ECM Mechanica 1V
                  La Pavoni Cellini
                  Rocket Appartamento

                  Do all these brands/models come off the same assembly line in Italy?

                  They all look the same to me .. and all about the same price.
                  Are there any notable differences between these machines that puts them slightly ahead of the others?

                  I'm aware of good folks plugging their own wares .. but hey .. I'm all ears .. sell it to me.

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                  • #24
                    Nope. Rocket is produced in Milan by Rocket Espresso- the NZ company which purchased a portion of ECM Italy including line, IP and staff. As I understand it, the others fall under the same brand portfolio (and may well come off the same line). Dunno/duncare.

                    La Pavoni have more recently produced a copy/clone of the Cellini and the Giotto. The story of their Giotto/Cellini copies can be read elsewhere in the forum.
                    Last edited by TC; 18 October 2016, 07:08 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by K_Bean_Coffee
                      Now I understand the reaction to my post a little better. It could be read as a blanket statement covering all HX machines. I'm not silly enough to make a blanket statement like that
                      When I posted "has it all the way" it was in response to the post above asking for an opinion on the Pro 500 vs the Magica. Comparing those machines I can say that I think that the Pro 500 "has it all the way" - "is streets ahead" - "in a different league," etc... my opinion.
                      I thought it was clear that you were responding to a direct query about the two machines, maybe because I read the post directly prior to your opinion.

                      It would have been crystal if you'd quoted him though.
                      Last edited by doobs; 18 October 2016, 08:10 PM. Reason: addition

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                        Ah yes, electronics, the Achilles heel and life limiting factor of most contemporary machinery.
                        Properly specified and engineered electronics is NOT unreliable...
                        You know my views on statements like yours above Yelta...

                        In fact, it doesn't differ from some of the contentious comments that have caused so many responses above. I spent half my life specifying, designing, building, testing and commissioning electronic systems for industrial/mining/processing equipment in some of the most difficult environments to place such hardware and the failure rate was so low, as to be almost immeasurable...

                        A poor experience in isolated situations and circumstances such as yours, doesn't necessarily reflect on installations in all instances mate...

                        Mal.
                        Last edited by Dimal; 18 October 2016, 08:48 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                          Properly specified and engineered electronics is NOT unreliable...
                          You know my views on statements like yours above Yelta...

                          Mal.
                          Guess we'll just have to agree to differ on this issue Mal, perhaps I've just been unlucky and encountered more than my share of unreliable electronic equipment.

                          PS Whoops, looks like you were editing while I was replying.

                          Mal my experiences were not isolated, I ran a core farm in one of Australia's largest mines, 30 people working for me, virtually everything was electronically controlled, we operated in a harsh environment and our electronic failure rate was a never ending nightmare, and, of course failures always occurred at the most convenient times not trying to stir the pot here, simply relating personal experience.
                          Guess we kept the on site sparkies gainfully employed.

                          PPS You probably know the brand names of some of the machinery we used, Jaques, Labtechnics now Labtech Essa, Boyd, Almonte, all electronically controlled.

                          "A poor experience in isolated situations and circumstances such as yours, doesn't necessarily reflect on installations in all instances mate..."
                          I agree, we ran 12 hours a day seven days a week, conditions were harsh and we had some very ordinary technicians who were extremely hard on the equipment, of course we had some good operators as well.
                          Last edited by Yelta; 18 October 2016, 09:41 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                            A poor experience in isolated situations and circumstances such as yours, doesn't necessarily reflect on installations in all instances mate...
                            Isolated in this instance refers to your particular personal experience Yelta, not the universal experience...

                            Mal.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                              Isolated in this instance refers to your particular personal experience Yelta, not the universal experience...

                              Mal.
                              Once again I agree Mal, however I'm relating to, and and explaining my experience in the situation I described, obviously, for better or worse my opinion has been strongly influenced by what I had to deal with during this period.

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                              • #30
                                Great suggestions from readeral in post #3

                                Not sure if it's helpful for you zeedok, but for some doing up a table of features to help with comparison might be useful for before / after you get in store and test out the machines you're look at. Price/value for money may be a steering factor vs features depending on your situation.

                                Machine X Price Y Boiler Size L Boiler Material (Cu/SS) Boiler Insulation (Y/N) Heating Element Size Water tank size L Steam/Hot water type controls Pressure Stat; Pump type; Noisy? Some training included ?

                                I'll be interested to know what you come up with zeedok. Good luck with your in store testing and enjoy the coffee tasting :-)

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