Hx shootout - Profitec v Rocket v ECM v Lelit

[Yelta]

Ah yes, electronics, the Achilles heel and life limiting factor of most contemporary machinery.

[wattgn]

Well the grouphead is, some of ther parts are more recent

Maybe, maybe not. About as basic as you can get, just a collection of solenoids, valves, switches pressure stat and gauge. I'd doubt even if the technology involved in any of those parts has changed since then. The double boiler models with electronics, yes definitely.

[trentski]

Considering both are 1961 technology...

Well the grouphead is, some of ther parts are more recent

[readeral]

"Has it all the way", "streets ahead" or "blowing other machines into the weeds" - everyone has their own little superfluous phrase.. and motives to go with it. Now it's up to Paul to back it up.

[Just to clarify - the extra quotes above are statements made by sponsors other than * **** regarding another brand of machine. It's just part and parcel of a forum to have opinions, highlight ones own values, and to suggest machines that are largely comparable as superior. The best cure to this perfectly reasonable bias is to walk into a shop and play around with machines for yourself.]

[wattgn]

Considering both are 1961 technology...

[TC]

I'm yet to meet a machine which "has it all the way" over any other machine.

Whilst I'm not a fan of Bezzera, they are bulletproof and well constructed. I don't sell them, but nothing I sell has it all the way over one...You'd otherwise question motive...

Just sayin'

Chris

[Yelta]

I would steer well clear of the Bezzera Magica. It's a 1980s Commodore in the car analogy. Stick with better brands

Crikey, big call there Paul! Bezzera is most certainly not a lesser brand.

"Stick with better brands" Bezzera is a highly respected brand name in the espresso industry with proven credentials, very reliable, with minimal electronics that will eventually fail.

Luigi Bezzera Patented the espresso process in 1901 History | Over 110 years impeccable pedigree.

The Magica is a domus Galatea in a plain stainless case, it will produce great shots time after time and, continue doing so for years with a minimal learning curve, and whats more its available for about $2750, maintenance is dead easy.

If your looking for a good looking, easy to use, reliable machine that will produce excellent coffee over many years buy a Bezzera, if your a machine geek looking for bells and whistles, there are plenty of others available.

[saeco_user]

Hi Matt,
The Profitec Pro 500 has it all the way. It's a very popular high end HX. Read about it here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...pro-500-a.html
I would steer well clear of the Bezzera Magica. It's a 1980s Commodore in the car analogy. Stick with better brands
Here's a Pro500 paired with a Q50P:

Some more details would be nice, "has it all the way" in which ways?.....Bezzera is a lesser brand because.... etc

[matth3wh]

Curious to know what people think of the Magica spec and price wise in comparison to the Pro 500 http://dibartoli.com.au/di-bartoli-magica/

[BenJohn]

Hi Zeedok,

Don't forget that there's Di Bartoli in Bondi Junction that have a similar range of Heat Exchange machines in stock around the $2-3k mark.

The Profitec Pro 500, ECM IV Profi (Vibrating pump), Rocket Appartamento & Giotto Premium Plus PID are all available through Di Bartoli.

Personally, I love the look of the Rocket machines. But it's a tough pick. They are all beautiful machines, both aesthetically and performance wise. Definitely worth going into their store and checking them out in person to decide for yourself.

Sorry for yet another, "what should I buy thread", but it is time for me to evolve from the dreaded capsules!

After some research (and a brief chat with Charlie from JetBlack) I have settled on an Hx machine and I am looking at the $2500-3000 bracket (I'd rather spend a bit more now and get a machine I won't want to upgrade in 5years).

The profitec pro 500 caught my attention, but the Rocket Appartamento looks funky and seems to be a similar price. Then again the Rocket Giotto PID V3 isn't much more.

Now I see that the ECM IV Profi (non- rotary pump, right?) is in the same price ballpark.

I have looked at the Lelit Mara, which is cheaper, but the build quality didn't seem quite as nice to me when compared directly to the Profitec 500.

I know that the most likely response to my rambling is: "They are all great and will make great coffee when used properly", and that I should choose the one that I like the look/price of best.

But . . . Are the build qualities and reliabilities equivalent? Or, does one company / model really stick out?

[zeedok]

Great stuff -- thanks everyone. Planning a trip to JetBlack in the next couple of weeks -- sorry *****, they are very close to home.

[wattgn]

All the Italian machines from major manufacturers are similar. HX machines are made to be dead simple and are. The E61 heads can vary slightly in technical detail, boiler sizes differ. The major difference would be vibe versus rotary pump. Externally it is a matter of taste but again most of the machines look similar until you look closely. Some boilers are stainless, some copper. Most rotary pumps are still brass but can be stainless also to reduce the possibility of heavy metal contamination but also flavour taints.

The E61 was invented in 1961 so is over half a century old. The manufacturers have gotten the hang now of making them.

The main differences is who is promoting them in a particular country.

[trentski]

I guess I'm left thinking Alfa (Rocket) v Mercedes (Profitec / ECM)?

Not the best analogy. Rocket quality is way above that of Alfa Romeo. They all do pretty much the same thing and you would be happy with any of them the devil is in the detail and what you like the look of the most.

[TC]

Yes- you will be fine to choose whatever interface you like best...

Enjoy...

[zeedok]

Thanks everyone for the tips, and ***** for the link to your guide (which you will be glad to know that I have already read).

It is reassuring to know that the Profitec/Rocket/ECM seem to be on a mechanic par -- leaving the vibe v rot pump issue aside.

I guess I'm left thinking Alfa (Rocket) v Mercedes (Profitec / ECM)?