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Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

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  • Some days it pays to RTFM.


    Java "Now where did I put that manual..." phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    • Originally posted by JMcCee View Post
      [LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]Operator error or not long into the journey.
      That provided a laugh, JM!

      My post was aimed at fanboy/girl adoration and purchase of something unseen. In other words ... do your own homework rather than follow the gospel of the fan club.

      There is more written locally about the DE than what appears here in text or link form.

      My post does not dispute the attributes of the DE, I was, in fact, impressed by its ability to replicate extraction profiles that I've seen logged from
      various other machines, including spring levers, or generate a profile otherwise unobtainable.....a very 'tweakable' machine.
      An interesting toy for someone cashed up, with plenty of time and coffee to experiment with.

      I was singularly unimpressed with its appearance but that's another (circular) discussion that I've no interest in pursuing as it's a purely personal matter for everybody.
      It will be more accessible when there is a local importer/distributor or at least a local service provider.

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      • All good points but I am neither a 'fanboy' or 'cashed up' and after using the thing every day for a few months I certainly wouldn't regard it as a toy. My DE purchase was based on a number of factors including not for the way the machine looked but for how it didn't look and function, that is like a last century analogue device using 50+ yo technology with PID's tacked on to make it more marketable. Okay, so if I enjoy playing with the thing I guess it must be a bit of a toy but so is my '59 Lambro.

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        • Originally posted by JMcCee View Post
          All good points but I am neither a 'fanboy' or 'cashed up' and after using the thing every day for a few months I certainly wouldn't regard it as a toy. My DE purchase was based on a number of factors including not for the way the machine looked but for how it didn't look and function, that is like a last century analogue device using 50+ yo technology with PID's tacked on to make it more marketable. Okay, so if I enjoy playing with the thing I guess it must be a bit of a toy but so is my '59 Lambro.
          Well said JMcCee.

          I also am a function first guy not a fanboy of any tech particularly. Personally I also couldn't care less how it looked (boxes and paint are both cheap enough if it looks that crappy). I do appreciate the good engineering and careful selection of materials by John - FWIW, that is also worth quite a few "functional brownie points" in my book.

          Having spent since 1970 trying to get an equivalent and / or better coffee than a manual lever espresso maker with a machine that does not need

          1) Temp surfing
          2) Pre and post flushes
          3) Spot on dosing
          4) Consistent level tamping at a pretty constant pressure
          5) Constantly filling up f****** water tanks (really fun in this micro kitchen where you have to pull the machine out to fill it as the cupboard above it has barely enough clearance for a few glasses on the warming tray)
          6) Paying your analyst danger money (hitch hiker's guide) if you need to make a third cuppa as the (insert more expletives) machine cannot do it on the same calendar day and give something drinkable (particularly manual levers and ridiculously small boilers)
          7) The wonderful "fish oil taint" of a brass boiler after far too few days of use between cleans
          8) Needing a private power station to warm the bigger beasties up (my "15Amp required" 2 group La Pav takes 18amps at 240V for 35 minutes - it also used to regularly eat fuses in most venues until circuit breakers become common)
          9) A large potential selection of other arcane rituals of your choice (weighing the grounds and adding to the hopper, weighing the grounds post grinding, Weiss, Staub and nutating distribution etc etc etc - the list is endless)

          and being quite disillusioned with some pretty expensive makers - quite a few of which I have owned - all of which needed at least some (over half?) of the above list. The killer is that none of them can come close to my manual lever Electra, let alone the Cremina for "in the cup bliss" as long as it only for two people. Unfortunately both of the manual levers I like need damn near the whole list above to make a brilliant cuppa (plus a top quality grinder and a non sleep deprived "barista" on the top of their game).

          There just has to be a better way since the Gaggia espresso maker was produced in the 1950's... sheesh - it has been nearly 70 years dudes.

          So I laid out my hard earned readies for the DE1Pro. Hopefully it will arrive by the end of October. My main reason for getting the Pro (over the 1+) was the short term need to not plumb it in whilst my new build is finished (the extra pump life was a second welcome bonus). Then I may well have a special double celebration - a kitchen big enough to make a decent meal and to never top up another water tank at home (that was the main advantage of my two group La Pavoni - which is banned from the current micro kitchen on space and noise grounds).

          Other than those issues the Decent is the only machine I know of that should be able to equal the manual levers I know all too well - hopefully without most of the headaches - and it can even do rapid fire coffees for dozens of guests without stress. One day someone will sort out the rest of the above list and make the perfect domestic machine - until then the Decent is the closest I can get to it at any price.

          TampIt

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          • Originally posted by TampIt View Post
            One day someone will sort out the rest of the above list and make the perfect domestic machine - until then the Decent is the closest I can get to it at any price.

            TampIt
            Congratulations Tampit on getting the DE1Pro! You have posted many times you wouldn't get a DE1 till they extract and steam at the same time. I noticed the posts in this thread on the new steam idea, can the Pro version now do both simultaneously - or did you lower your standards?

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            • He actually raised his standards.

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              • Okay, an update.

                My wife says I am in fact a fanboy but laughed like a loon when it was suggested I'm 'cashed up'.

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                • TampIt I do hope the DE1Pro meets all your expectations, but my experience is that the DE1+ while doing everything else you specify, is certainly not fast if you want to make milky drinks. My morning routine now takes much longer than it used to with my HX machine, but goodness! the coffee is definitely better by far. That's not "fanboy" stuff, but is simply my experience

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                  • JMcCee you have every right to be a fanboy, having just recieved a shiny new product with endless possibilities ahead. A little like getting an Iphone after only having a rotary dial phone.

                    Of course it is only after the office has called eight times in the middle of a nice lunch you might think the phone brings too many possibilities.....
                    Only kidding, you deserve to enjoy your new machine to the fullest and be as enthusiastic as you like. I always thought you were pretty enthusiastic about the older gear, so you are an even handed fanboy.

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                    • Originally posted by rimblas View Post
                      Hard to say for sure, but I'm going to venture and say part of that is the that was the flush into the drip tray when the pressure is released.
                      Exactly right.

                      Currently, the scale and the tablet app continue weighing the espresso drink for 5 seconds after the flow stops. This is because espresso continues to go into the cup.

                      However, since the Decent flushes into the drip tray, 5 seconds later, when weighing from below, you're now including the weight of the flush too.

                      On my todo is an option for the tablet to stop weighing when the water flow stops. This will, however, underweigh the espresso by about 20%. There isn't a perfect solution here, other than rewiring the Decent to not flush into the drip tray (which you could do by putting a little tube over the flush outlet and routing it elsewhere)

                      -john

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                      • Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                        It will be more accessible when there is a local importer/distributor or at least a local service provider.
                        We only sell direct, so waiting for a distributor will take a long time.

                        However, my mechanical engineer Ben (who designed all the parts in the group head) is now installed in Brisbane and able to repair machines locally in Australia.

                        -john

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by 338 View Post
                          Congratulations Tampit on getting the DE1Pro! You have posted many times you wouldn't get a DE1 till they extract and steam at the same time. I noticed the posts in this thread on the new steam idea, can the Pro version now do both simultaneously - or did you lower your standards?
                          G'day 338

                          No, it still cannot shoot and steam (dammit) but I have four other machines to do the steam while I use the DE1 for a shot. If it turns out that the DE1 is such a steam demon that it actually generates better microfoam I will probably curse a lot, grit my teeth (a lot) and get a DE1+ (or some other equivalent steamer) to sit next to it. At least it is a (very) small footprint. I still regard a shot and froth separated by > 5 seconds a fail - and that will not EVER change for my lattes. 30% of my shots are straight espresso, so it is only a 70% problem for me, but close to 100% "milk & coffee" for guests.

                          I still find it a little hard to accept that such an advanced & costly machine cannot do both at once, however I am also too impatient* to await a more final solution. FWIW, I reckon one of my current machines sitting next to it will be the long term solution (just NOT the 7000 "autosteaming device from hell" - the new built will not have either space or noise limitations so one of my 6910s should do it). Mind you, an even better solution would be an upgrade to get to where it should be in the first place... but I am not holding my breath for that. Gotta love bureaucratic approval processes... not.

                          Enjoy your cuppa - I still enjoy mine, although I really, really hate this micro kitchen.


                          TampIt
                          too impatient* - Ultra pessimistic view: If the DE1Pro coffee shot cannot equal a manual lever then it will end up as a glorified milk frother anyway, that is the other undesirable possibility. That happened to my "very upmarket LM and its even more upmarket sibling" in the US as my manual lever Electra completely wiped the floor with them in terms of flavour in the cup. At worst the Decent could end up being be a cheaper mistake... and a worthy cause to boot. I have always believed in funding research. Note: the Electra manual lever cannot do both at once either - I have lived with "one for milk, one for shot" for over 20 years until fairly recently anyway - not a new concept for me.
                          Last edited by TampIt; 7th September 2018, 04:12 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by JMcCee View Post
                            He actually raised his standards.
                            No, lowered them. New kitchen = space for new toy plus steamer next to it. Simple.

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                            • Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                              ... for my lattes. 30% of my shots are straight espresso, so it is only a 70% problem for me, but close to 100% "milk & coffee" for guests.
                              Dare I say it, there's always a Breville Milk Cafe Frother for the guests. ;-) https://www.breville.com/us/en/produ...ee/bmf600.html
                              I think it works [STRIKE]well[/STRIKE] ok for a guest production line.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rimblas View Post
                                Dare I say it, there's always a Breville Milk Cafe Frother for the guests. ;-) https://www.breville.com/us/en/produ...ee/bmf600.html
                                I think it works [STRIKE]well[/STRIKE] ok for a guest production line.
                                ... but not even remotely acceptable for my own lattes, and I have this funny ethos that will not give a guest less than I could accept in terms of quality...

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