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Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Would like to be as sure of winning a lottery as I am that this will be a non event.

    The web site is all smoke and mirrors.
    I've had some direct contact with John and have been surprised by their openness. There is plenty of marketing material for sure, but it's no worse than the stuff coming out of the likes of Slayer (take the Steam for example).

    I'm not planning on buying a machine (I'd rather create the functionality myself) and wouldn't say all of the design choices are to my taste, but I admire what they've done.

    It's been interesting watching it develop as a curious onlooker.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Yelta View Post
      Would like to be as sure of winning a lottery as I am that this will be a non event.

      The web site is all smoke and mirrors.

      If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck.. then guess what....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Casa Espresso View Post
        If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck.. then guess what....
        And I would imagine, as John Cleese would say, pretty soon it may well be an extinct duck.

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        • #19
          It is perfect for a hipster cafe

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SniffCoffee View Post
            Pro is going to be closer to $5k AU - DE1+ is the 2600 one.
            Website is showing de1 pro for 2633
            Pro plus for 3983
            Looks to be in au dollars

            De1 plus is 2903

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            • #21
              Gosh. I'll believe it's a product. I'll believe that it works. But blimey, all those electronics stuffed into a tiny box like that - I wouldn't want to believe that dropping that much coin will mean it's going to survive very long.. It's kind of the logical successor to a Breville Double Boiler, which achieves it's claims but the repair costs are prohibitive. This is just the next level up, without the global supply chain or repair networks.

              Even if they've nailed that profiling system and all the mechanics it would involve as well, it's a mighty achievement in such a tiny box. However we all know there's far more to espresso than what the machine itself does.

              Looks fun, will be great for the demographic I would normally be considered to inhabit, but I'll pass.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by trentski View Post
                Website is showing...
                Pro plus for 3983
                Looks to be in au dollars

                ProPlus AUD $3983
                plus freight = $25
                plus duty 5% = $200.40
                plus GST 10% = $420.84

                Total: AUD 4629.24

                That's certainly a LOT of coin but a great gizmo for those that feel the need to fiddle enough to induce insanity...
                ...although I didn't hear mentioned the importance of grind, dose, tamp and choice of beans!

                Without consistency of the basics no amount of electronic control is going to produce great coffee.

                Sure would be fun to play with though.

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                • #23
                  John from Decent Espresso joins the fray

                  I agree that a healthy dose of skepticism is appropriate for any new company, especially one that introduces a new product that makes a lot of bold claims.

                  I'm happy to answer any questions you have about what we're up to. To get the conversation going, I'd like to post this video I made today, showing the DE1+ machine. It's in two parts:





                  We're going to be launching the espresso machines in a few days, with a bunch of web site changes (including final prices) but I can give you advance notice that the prices will around A$1500 for the DE1, and A$2900 for the DE1+. Shipping, sales tax and duty get added to that.

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                  • #24
                    Thanks John for the videos.

                    Do you know how much shipping, sales tax and duty will add to the price of the DE1+?

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                    • #25
                      John, first of all, awesome works you guys did there! And thanks for joining here!

                      As with others, I'm curious about the expected reliability of the DE1. What will be the most common failure that you foresee? Any action/prevention taken against that? Take the Breville dual boiler as an example, it is an awesome machine when it works. Unfortunately, when there're small hiccups and they happen (pump failure, solenoid, valve, pressure gauge etc), it can be annoying even if it is backed up by warranty. Can any of the repair/maintenance be done by some of us laymen who are more DIY/hands on?

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                      • #26
                        If the machine comes from China (like I think that I read somewhere)...we have a free-trade agreement that will waive the import duty (5%?)

                        It all counts...

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by LFM60 View Post
                          Thanks John for the videos.

                          Do you know how much shipping, sales tax and duty will add to the price of the DE1+?
                          That's actually the last bit of programming I'm working on, right this moment, of integrating into our shipping service's duty/shipping calculator. Once that works, we can launch.

                          However, since you asked, I looked up the answer to your question by hand, and TNT appears to be the cheapest.

                          Attached is the shipping/duty/tax charge in Hong Kong Dollars. Divide by 6 for Australian dollars, and you're at about A$500 in shipping/duty on our DE1+.



                          I know, I know, that is really high, and you'll see that the Import Tax is the biggest part. Governments run on taxes, unfortunately.

                          Originally posted by MadForCoffee View Post
                          As with others, I'm curious about the expected reliability of the DE1. What will be the most common failure that you foresee? Any action/prevention taken against that? Take the Breville dual boiler as an example, it is an awesome machine when it works. Unfortunately, when there're small hiccups and they happen (pump failure, solenoid, valve, pressure gauge etc), it can be annoying even if it is backed up by warranty. Can any of the repair/maintenance be done by some of us laymen who are more DIY/hands on?
                          Of course, we have our short list of things that worry us, which in order are more or less:

                          1- calcification (and people not decalcifying)
                          2- reliability of connectors
                          3- reliability of pumps
                          4- reliability of tubing.

                          On 2/3/4 we're currently going with the most expensive, high reliability components out there. Solid teflon tubing is about US$50 per foot, and that's what we use. The swivel connectors are solid metal and are US$8 each. The pump we're using is from a Taiwanese supplier who supplies Nespresso, and they admitted that their earlier models had reliability issues that they have solved for a few years now. Their honesty makes me trust them more.

                          Because we have a flow meter in the DE1+ we can detect calcification buildup, which is handy.

                          Heat buildup was a major concern for beta 1 and 2, but now we've totally thermally/water isolated the circuit boards and power supply, and given them their own ventilation, and the circuit board area runs at 27ºC now, far far away from the 60ºC danger zone.

                          2 years ago, I had my two lead engineers intern at two Seattle-based espresso repair shops, so that reliability best practices would be our point of departure.

                          As a new machine, there will doubtlessly be problems we haven't foreseen, but if you go back through our Facebook and Home Barista conversations, you'll see that (a) I'm really into transparency and doing the right thing (hence the company name) and (b) I don't think that a new company can survive, in this market and this internet-age, and not do the right thing.

                          Australia is currently our #2 biggest customer, after the States, for our accessories. I'll be showing up for the big Australian coffee trade show in the spring, and you can play with the machines in person.

                          Originally posted by Paolo View Post
                          If the machine comes from China (like I think that I read somewhere)...we have a free-trade agreement that will waive the import duty (5%?) It all counts...
                          We're in Hong Kong, and we build the machines ourselves from parts from China, the USA and Germany.

                          Hong Kong is "sort of" China, so I'd love to find a reference to the import duty waiver language and see if we can apply for it.

                          Because otherwise the Australian Import Duty is not pleasant, at A$280 for our DE1+, more than the shipping costs.

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                          • #28
                            John, your machine is very impressive. Can you please consider partnering with 1 or more Australian retailers so that it can be released with local compliance and warranty support within Australia. Can't wait to try your machine!

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                            • #29
                              In another video where the Decent Pro grinder/doser was shown, John said that they have tried a number of domestic level grinders and that they are not up to par with the DE1+ setup. It is always refreshing to know that when it comes to espresso it is still grinder grinder grinder!

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                              • #30
                                John, welcome to CoffeeSnobs - I look forward to following your journey here and on HB

                                Sniff

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