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  • level3ninja
    replied
    The grind isn't the only thing you can adjust to affect how fast the water flows through the grinds in the portafilter (that's what makes the coffee taste burnt of too slow, or watery if too fast). You can also adjust the dose (amount of grinds in portafilter) as well as how hard you tamp. All three things will change the flow rate of the water if the other two don't change.

    It sounds like the sweet spot is between 7.5 and 8.0 on your grinder (annoying, but may change as the beans age to be more in line with one of those two, usually beans need to be ground finer as they age).

    So try grinding at 7.5 and reducing the amount of grinds you use, or grind at 8.0 and updose a little.

    Or try grinding at 7.5 and tamping quite softly, or if you already don't tamp very hard try grinding at 8.0 and tamping harder.

    Or try a combination of the two. I personally find it easier to adjust the dose them the tamp because I tamp from habit so if I'm not thinking about it I'll go back to how I always do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • MTAT
    replied
    OK, after some extensive time and trial and error and countless amount of coffee consumed. I believed I have gained some basic skills and knowledge.

    And I think now is a good time for some educated questions:

    I'm trying to get my ratio to be in between 1/1.5- 1/2.0 however I end up with this situation and not sure why. With the current grinder between 2 size 8 and 7.5 I either have the coffee flushed out too fast or too slow.

    Not sure if I make myself clear here but if I set the grinder to 8, coffee comes out too quickly and ended up with 1/3.0 within 18 secs. Taste wise is definitely on the sour side. Although the shot look beautiful
    And if I adjust it down to 7.5 it would then flowing nicely for first 10sec and then started to drip drop by drop. If I stop anywhere between 25-35 secs it would have only been 1/1.0 and taste a bit burnt/too bitter and the shot look awful.

    Not sure what else I should try differently and whether it was a machine, grinder or user issue here.

    I might try to upload some video which would make it a bit easier I guess.

    Any suggestion is welcome. Thank you in advance.

    Leave a comment:


  • degaulle
    replied
    Originally posted by LeroyC View Post
    You can either adjust the dose or the output. Adjusting the weight of the output obviously adjusts the time of the extraction as well. It doesn't really matter which variable you choose to adjust, but obviously you need to test the results and base its success on taste as simply hitting some number targets doesn't guarantee good flavour.
    +1.

    What I find to be a comprehensible guide overall is this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BT7-yOUMDM

    One remark though: In the video, Matt suggests that the only reason to increase your dose (and increase the output in proportion) is to make more espresso, all else being equal. It implicitly suggests that a 36 grams shot out of 18 grams would taste the same as a 34 grams shot out of 17 grams of coffee, which I am not sure of.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeroyC
    replied
    Originally posted by MTAT View Post
    Hi degaulle

    quick question, how do I alter the weigh ratio? ie by adjusting the dose say 18gr - 19gr?

    Cheers
    You can either adjust the dose or the output. Adjusting the weight of the output obviously adjusts the time of the extraction as well. It doesn't really matter which variable you choose to adjust, but obviously you need to test the results and base its success on taste as simply hitting some number targets doesn't guarantee good flavour.

    Leave a comment:


  • MTAT
    replied
    Hi degaulle

    quick question, how do I alter the weigh ratio? ie by adjusting the dose say 18gr - 19gr?

    Cheers

    Originally posted by degaulle View Post
    A good starting point is to produce an espresso that is about 2 times the weight of the ground coffee that goes into the basket. This may very well turn out to be less than 60 cc.
    If it is too strong to your taste, use a slightly higher ratio, e.g. 2.2. From there you can finetune the grind / extraction time by taste.

    Having said this, I don't weigh every shot I make. I use a scale for weighing the ground coffee and weigh the shot when dialing in and occasionally as a backcheck.

    Leave a comment:


  • degaulle
    replied
    Originally posted by LFM60 View Post
    Mmm. That looks good MTAT.

    I'll let the experts answer your latest questions.
    Those shots look very nice indeed. BTW The 60 cc target volume should include the crema.

    If it tastes great, good job!
    However, a 60 cc volume is not always the best target when you try different coffees. Italian roasters invariably include robusta beans in their blends, ensuring a good amount of crema. 100 % arabica coffees may produce less volume due to less crema. For that reason more and more people base their targets on weight rather than volume. A good starting point is to produce an espresso that is about 2 times the weight of the ground coffee that goes into the basket. This may very well turn out to be less than 60 cc.
    If it is too strong to your taste, use a slightly higher ratio, e.g. 2.2. From there you can finetune the grind / extraction time by taste.

    Having said this, I don't weigh every shot I make. I use a scale for weighing the ground coffee and weigh the shot when dialing in and occasionally as a backcheck.

    Leave a comment:


  • LFM60
    replied
    Originally posted by MTAT View Post



    Mmm. That looks good MTAT.

    I'll let the experts answer your latest questions.

    Leave a comment:


  • MTAT
    replied
    Ok so finally I have made it to 35sec for 60ml and good colouring. Taste wise was good without any bitterness of burnt coffee.

    Another dumb question please. When measuring 60ml do you count the crema? Ie when pouring I would aim to stop when crema reaches 60ml or slightly more to make up of foam volume?



    Leave a comment:


  • LeroyC
    replied
    Originally posted by MTAT View Post
    Thank you Leroy... watched the video and so happy that I still have ... sheet load of practices to do.

    Ok now I need some help to trouble shoot. I have kept all other variables the same (dose 18gr, tamp pressure, wet:dry weight ratio (2:1), etc) and change only the grind size.

    Here's what I find which i'm a bit lost of what to adj next

    From 20secs for 60ml (obviously too fast) i adjust the grinder to 0.5 point finer here are the changes

    It went from 5sec flow starts to 10-15 sec flow start and I can get 60ml in 40-50 sec which seem to be burnt. I could also see the puck was burnt at the bottom part.

    Should I :

    1. Go back the previous grind size and increase the dose? ie to 19gr?
    2. Other suggestion
    That could be because the Anfim KS is a stepped grinder and although you're only moving one step it's far enough to cause problems. I owned a KS in the past and was really impressed with it. I occasionally struck this sort of issue due to the steps, but it was rare.
    So yeah, this is where a bit of experience comes in and you can start to adjust multiple variables at once. Doing what you suggested is a good start, but obviously will only work if your filter basket is big enough to hold 19g. I suggest you work out max amount your basket can hold by using the nickel test. Remember you don't want the dry coffee puck touching the shower screen before you start the shot. The other option obviously is to do the opposite- leave the grinder where it is and reduce your dose to 17g. Personally I prefer a slower, longer extraction so this is what I'd do, but that very much depends on the coffee you're using and your personal taste.

    Leave a comment:


  • nickm
    replied
    Dont stress the exact timings dosings etc, dont forget to be driven by taste. I find the bean itself will have its own oddities or profile. I've given up measuring other than my dosing grind I'm dialing in a new bag of beans. Other than that I go by look/feel.

    Leave a comment:


  • MTAT
    replied
    Thank you Leroy... watched the video and so happy that I still have ... sheet load of practices to do.

    Ok now I need some help to trouble shoot. I have kept all other variables the same (dose 18gr, tamp pressure, wet:dry weight ratio (2:1), etc) and change only the grind size.

    Here's what I find which i'm a bit lost of what to adj next

    From 20secs for 60ml (obviously too fast) i adjust the grinder to 0.5 point finer here are the changes

    It went from 5sec flow starts to 10-15 sec flow start and I can get 60ml in 40-50 sec which seem to be burnt. I could also see the puck was burnt at the bottom part.

    Should I :

    1. Go back the previous grind size and increase the dose? ie to 19gr?
    2. Other suggestion

    Leave a comment:


  • LeroyC
    replied
    Originally posted by MTAT View Post
    Hi all,

    Some updates on the situation

    I have been gaining a bit more consistency, crema colouring, volume (60ml/20secs), 2:1 weight ratio (36:18) pretty much most of the time now.

    Few more stupid questions please

    Do you adjust your grinder (finer) when you have less and less bean? I tend to leave only a few cups in the grinder and top up when I see there wont be enough for another pull.

    Is it advisable to keep top up my grinder or just dump the whole 250gr in there if I can finish it in a couple of week?

    Cheers T
    As your grinder doesn't have a tinted hopper any beans stored in there will be exposed to light. Light is one thing that will cause them to age faster so I'd suggest you only keep enough in there for one day (maybe 2 at the most if this is easier). Ideally the hopper will be close to empty at the end of the day and you can top it up each morning. Keep the rest of your beans in an air tight container of some in a cool place such as low down in the pantry or a kitchen cupboard. If the coffee you're buying is sold in a bag with a ziplock seal and a one way valve these are ideal for storage.
    Yes your grinder will need to be adjusted regularly. This is due to a variety of reasons such as the amount of coffee in the hopper, how fresh it is and the ambient temperature, but mostly due to the type of coffee you're using. When you change to a new coffee you will almost always have to adjust the grinder.
    Finally, a 20sec shot is quite fast unless that's 20secs from when you see the first drops of coffee. Ideally you should be aiming for a 25-30sec shot at the fastest. This is counted from when you turn the pump on until you stop the shot, and is made up of roughly 5-10sec of no flow at the start and 15-25sec of flow from the portafilter.
    I often share the YouTube clip below from site sponsor Jetblack as while parts of the process such as distribution and tamp are a bit rough and ready it shows a great example of what a nice ristretto shot should look like. It's stopped at 24sec as you can see from the counter on the machine but could probably have been allowed to go for another 3-5sec at least in my opinion. Try to aim for something that looks like this as a minimum.

    https://youtu.be/1wGNOLR3yh8

    Leave a comment:


  • MTAT
    replied
    Hi all,

    Some updates on the situation

    I have been gaining a bit more consistency, crema colouring, volume (60ml/20secs), 2:1 weight ratio (36:18) pretty much most of the time now.

    Few more stupid questions please

    Do you adjust your grinder (finer) when you have less and less bean? I tend to leave only a few cups in the grinder and top up when I see there wont be enough for another pull.

    Is it advisable to keep top up my grinder or just dump the whole 250gr in there if I can finish it in a couple of week?

    Cheers T

    Leave a comment:


  • Budgiesmuggler
    replied
    Originally posted by MTAT View Post
    @dumiya
    great stuffs and thanks again for the reinforcement. (I believed) I have managed to fix all others element and only need to adjust the grinder size. Of course this is at the cost of 2 bags of beans.

    1. Fixed the dose to be 18gr exact (kitchen scale)
    2. Same tamping technic
    3. Using timer to time aiming at 25, 30 then 40 sec. (recommended 40 sec was for 60ml)
    4. The only thing left will be the grinder size which I think I am closed to getting the right size.

    Few questions for everyone (these are really dumb questions so be warned)

    Do you always use the double basket? (assuming Yes)
    Does this mean you always drink a double shot everytime?
    Should I try to work with a single basket? Or using a single basket in a double sprout? (my guess will be preferably not )

    Cheers

    T

    good job with the scales - I weigh the beans out to 18g and then grind and put into portafilter.

    I then use an espresso scale (get one it's awesome for coffee) like this https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/brewista-smart-scale

    the espresso scale weighs the dose in the cup and the shot time. I aim for 36g in cup in around 30 seconds.

    Check out sensory Lab coffee in melbourne they have give a coffee recepie with their beans, eg use x about coffee and extract in y time for z amount in cup

    Leave a comment:


  • MTAT
    replied
    Will definitely check them out when I'm around Bondi.

    Yesterday I was able to produce a more consistent shot at least I got the same amount of coffee (60ml) in about 25s. Which I will keep doing for a while until adjusting the grinder again.

    I found it quite enjoyable and rewarding to learn everything from scratch yourself. Knowing that there are tons of help here and as long as you keep trying you'll get there (eventually).

    Cheers everyone!!!

    Leave a comment:

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