I recently moved up to the Profitec 700 Pro DB after having an Isomac Tea II HX for 8 years of faultless service. I have loved being able to adjust the brew temp on the PID to suit the roast level of the coffee that I am using for espresso and long blacks.
Whatever decision you make you will end up with a great machine which will produce great coffee.
Looking forward to seeing a pic of your shiny new plaything!!
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Quick note. Last year I often make 10 - 12 flat white cups for folk after yoga. I extracted 5 60ml shots (10 cups) the did the milk. I watched the boiler pressure and stopped for recovery when the boiler topped itself up. 20 cups an hour would be a breeze, but not every hour!
All that on an '08 HX (Rocket)
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Thanks to everyone who responded here.
I'm not sure that it has made my decision any easier, but some of the points above were not on my radar, so I will be making a more informed choice when I do decide.
The practical side of my brain says "just get a shiny new top quality HX and be happy with it". The little man with OCD in my hind brain says "get a DB with muliplePID's - think of all the fun it will be to play with".
I suspect that the practical side will prevail, but then again... maybe not ................
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You'll find most of the sponsors gave equipment guides and tool to help you nartow down your search.
Worthwhile checking their pages in the forum for CS only deals.
Finally you can send an email to all sponsors with your requirements and get recommendations and quotes back. I'm on tapatalk so can't see it but on the website its at the top of the page.
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Only 0.2cm narrower than say Vibiemme Junior.Originally posted by nickm View PostAgree with Casa Espresso. The lelit range generally sits below the EXAM, Rocket, Vibiemme ranges.
I'd only do the Mara if space is an issue as it is one of the narrowest on the market
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Wow, I'm learning a lot from this. Getting some facts straight in my head too
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This may seem like a hijack, but here are my 2 cents' worth: I reckon the temp stability under load of a DB is tp an extent attributable to the water being preheated by a HX before entering the brew boiler. I think most DBs nowadays are designed like this, but I am not sure If it applies to all the machines suggested so far; this may be a criterium for the OP to consider.
Secondly: the E61 group was originally designed for a HX machine. The temperature gradient between the superheated HX water and the cooler grouphead induces the water to circulate and thus keep the grouphead hot. If the water circulates between the cooler brew boiler and the grouphead, one would think the thermosyphon would not be as effective and an alternate grouphead design may be better suited for a DB machine. Any thoughts?
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Agree with Casa Espresso. The lelit range generally sits below the EXAM, Rocket, Vibiemme ranges.
I'd only do the Mara if space is an issue as it is one of the narrowest on the market
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Really, with all else being equal, the only advantage of a Dual-Boiler machine over a HX machine, is if you are mainly a black coffee drinker. The DB will then allow you to dial-in the ideal temperature for each and every coffee purchase you make. If this is not the situation, then a HX machine would be ideal...
The subtle differences between black coffee pours will be washed out when used in milk coffees.
Mal.Last edited by Dimal; 3 May 2017, 07:25 PM.
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Agreed, with the budget you have I would be looking at ECM, Profitec, Bezzera, Rocket... IMO Lelit sits a bit below these brandsOriginally posted by sacsnob View PostPro 300 is a way better choice than PL60t if its within your budget. The build quality of Lelit IMO is not as good as the other brands I have owned in the past.
Cheers
Antony
CASA ESPRESSO
Casa Espresso - Home
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Degree they are a lot of machines available look at the Rockets and Bezzera are very well build and easy to get service.
Regards
Renzo
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Tom93 , sacsnob, Alastair and Paul - thanks for those answers, they tend to confirm most of what I was thinking in relation to the HX V DB comparison. And also raised a point or two I had not considered.
I was using the two Lelits as an example, but I could have used the Profitec Pro 300 / 500 too. They are on my list, and are within my budget, if only just, however, they do seem to get lots of praise for the quality of materials, finish etc.
Paul - I will send you a PM re this shortly.
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I agree a good HX should produce shot after shot just as well as the dual boiler. It would more be a single boiler that would be the slower. Aren't/weren't most commercial cafe machines HX machines?Originally posted by sacsnob View PostEither one would be able to knock out at least a dozen or so within an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-KiJzO7exQ&t=7s
I bought PL60Tv2 over the HX due to its quick heat up time (10 minutes vs 30 minutes on HX), and the ability to fine tune the brew temperature.
I reckon Mara would be a lot more powerful in steaming due to its boiler size however steaming on PL60tv2 is good enough for me.
In this case the warm up times may be right as the Mara is an E61 group head. An E61 dual boiler would take 30mins to warm up as well as the wait is for the group head to warm up not the HX system if I'm not mistaken. All these times depend on configuration of each machine and the group head styles, like dual boilers with a small boiler integrated into/sitting on top of the group head should heat up quicker.
The main advantages, as I see, for a DB is more accurate control of brew temps (but a good HX shouldn't be far of the mark) and the ability to change that temp as desired to try to extract different flavours and to suit different beans.
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Pro 300 is a way better choice than PL60t if its within your budget. The build quality of Lelit IMO is not as good as the other brands I have owned in the past.
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Either one would be able to knock out at least a dozen or so within an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-KiJzO7exQ&t=7s
I bought PL60Tv2 over the HX due to its quick heat up time (10 minutes vs 30 minutes on HX), and the ability to fine tune the brew temperature.
I reckon Mara would be a lot more powerful in steaming due to its boiler size however steaming on PL60tv2 is good enough for me.
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