Gicar relay repair/replacement

[Lyrebird]

Late to the party again but I was reading this because it looks like I have a blown Gicar board in the VBM I'm fixing.


The relay problem is relatively easy to fix: if you can't find a relay for that voltage, change the voltage.

Gicar trace_2

Cut the trace shown. Solder three short wires to the three pads I've labelled 18V, GND and Relay.

Make a small 12V regulator board (veroboard will do) using a switching module such as a Recom R78E12 - 0.5, available from RS for about $5. These are pin compatible with a 7812 linear reg but much more efficient so a heatsink isn't required.

Wire ground to ground, input to 18V, output to relay.

Now you can substitute the relays with much more common 12V units. If you use one with a coil of about 500 ohms the current draw will be very similar.

[mgleds]

Howdy,

It was R3 (heater relay) that was faulty and being a more garden variety 12V relay I managed to replace it (amazingly) with one I already had from another project. Let's hope the other two don't go any time soon :-) Now to look into descaling and some other service items to give the machine some TLC.

Thanks and sorry for the thread hijack .

[wilm]

Hi Matthew,
Being based in The Netherlands I'm not sure if you want to pay for shipping and duties. I bought the control box for 130 euro ~ $204 Aud.
Did you check all other components that could be faulty? Pstat, HX etc.., It might also be the thermoswitch on top of the boiler that was tripped.
Finding relays is pita. If you succeed and tinkering with these components is not a problem you might be lucky.

If you need any help, let me know.

Willem

[mgleds]

Hi Willem,

My machine also has a faulty control box, it's powering up and can pour a shot, run cleaning cycle etc but the bolier isn't pressurising. I was hoping to replace the relay, but sounds like that might be a waste of time if it's unobtainable!

Where did you order a new control box from and what did it cost?


Thanks,

Matthew

[wilm]

Hi all,

I want to conclude this thread. I've tried to get in contact with Hongfa in Germany. No reply. I've tried the same with Gicar. No reply.
I've contacted several Hongfa and Zettler distributors in 4 different countries in Europe. Not one of them had these in stock. Minimum Order Quantity is 1.000. So the only option was buying a new control box, which I did.
Them machine is alive again.

Willem

[wilm]

The Finder relay, works accordingly. But the other 2, position RL1 and RL2 I need to replace.

[Beanz.]

Interesting, the relay I had fail was a Finder Type 40. The armature had rusted / corroded and the oxide was getting between the contacts, I had never seen that before. At first I thought coffee grinds had got inside the case
Cannot be certain of the pin / track connections from the photos. Is the location RL1 ? Looks like you had fun clearing the plated through holes

[wilm]

I've added the pictures of the board.




Yes, coil resistance differs, HF115F 018-2HS4 is 810 Ohm Zettler AZ742–2A–18D is 710 Ohm

[Beanz.]

Do you have a photo of the board ? Just wondering if it really needs the 2 form A contacts or are they wired in parallel.

Gary

I was wondering about that

The only relay that comes close is Zettler AZ742–2A–18D which is about 10 euro = 15 AUD a piece.

Thanks, Willem

Zettler and Hong Fa are associated companies and their production is in Ningbo China so not surprised they have similar relays but odd the coil resistance is different on the 18V versions

[gazza]

Do you have a photo of the board ? Just wondering if it really needs the 2 form A contacts or are they wired in parallel.

Gary

[wilm]

Yes, you're right. Finding this specific relay is a pain in the ... I've checked many datasheets of a lot of brands, including the one's you suggested. Nothing .... I'm even trying to locate the original HF115F relay at different distributor sites. No luck. I've been checking out Hongfa official dealers in Europe. No stock on these relays.
The only relay that comes close is Zettler AZ742–2A–18D which is about 10 euro = 15 AUD a piece.
Will continue the search

Thanks, Willem

[Beanz.]

Thanks for your reply. I've checked RT314018 PCB layout and correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's off vs HF115F

HF115F The 2H= 2 Form A contact

RT314018 The 1 = 1 Form C contact

2 Form A is not common and with an 18V coil even less so

There are numerous other brands such as TE, Omron, Fujitsu, Zettler, Finder and the list goes on

I had a similar odd coil voltage on a failed controller relay and had to use a 12V coil to get it up and running but the coil is lower resistance so y0u need to be sure the circuit can drive that. for example a 12V coil can work from 8.4 to 29.4V max coli voltage but it is only 360 Ohm coil Note: Using a Fujitsu FTR K1 for the example not as a suggested direct alternative Product detail - Fujitsu United States

The following link would be worth searching through for equivalent Power Relays- Active - Fujitsu United States

Maybe contact the original controller manufacturer and see if you can buy the relay as a spare part

[Javaphile]

You need a few more posts before you can upload a pic.


Java "Post!" phile

[wilm]

I get this error

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18131[/ATTACH]
To add a local image, in the "insert image" dialogue box select the "from computer" tab, select the file and click "upload file".

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18132[/ATTACH]


Gary

I don't get the dialogue box. The only option is the URL. Is this something I need to set up within the forum or..?
I npw try the tinypic option.

[Jackster]

Or if on phone use tinypic
Although i see some use imagur, but i dont know what its like.