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  • ECM Giotto Premium Plus V2 help

    Well hit paydirt on the weekend.

    A used Rocket Giotto turned up on Gumtree one suburb away for a great price. Physically it is in great condition, pretty much perfect apart from some scuffing on case from the steam wand. Turned out to be Premium Plus V2 from 2013, not sure on maintenance, owners never serviced but mentioned sister pulling it apart to do some basic maintenance. I haven't had a chance to even pull the top and sides off yet.

    Quite a big step up from the Gaggia Classic so just getting used to the machine.

    I have only had time to test with a few shots of coffee, did some basic testing before this and boiler filling nicely, getting to correct pressure after heating, steam, water and brew functions running OK. But when making the third shot noticed it has a leak from the bottom of the group.

    I will post some pics of the machine later (and the leak location) when I get some decent light in the garage after work.

    TODO list (not in any particular order);

    1. Remove the group seal/shower screen and clean
    2. Do a descale of group and boiler
    3. Do a proper backflush with some coffee cleaner
    4. Fix the group head leak, leaking from the bottom when brewing

    First issue leaking from the group (4 above). When I brewed the last shot there is water leaking from the group into the glass, I would say 15-20ml of water leaked from the bottom of the group into the glass. I have some basic experience mainly on single boiler machines like replacing group seals, steam valves and changing steam wands.

    Can I have some help on the likely issue and parts likely required to resolve the group leak?

    I think based on my reading it might be the relief valve but not sure if it is just maybe an o-ring or in the valve needs to be replaced?

  • #2
    A 2nd hand machine that hadn’t been serviced in 5 years. Might be wise to take it in to a qualified tech to give it a good once over.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah you may be right there, it would definitely shorten the time to get good coffee from the machine :-)

      If I fix it, it will take some time especially if I have to order/find any parts.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Giotto is an E61 machine, yes?

        It is a fairly easy job to strip and refurbish an E61 grouphead. Took me about 2 hours at the first attempt (I was being super careful).

        Plenty of how to info online.

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        • #5
          what was the great price ?

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          • #6
            Memphis, I picked it up for $700 which I think is a steal considering age and condition ... BTW your for sale ad is in the wrong section, should be in Hardware for Sale

            Really embarrassed to say but the leak was not from the group end (drain valve), it was the group head seal. Not sure how I got myself so confused and asked such a dumb question (and spent a few hours reading about pulling apart group).

            I tested with the blind filter and water was leaking around the main group seal. So I removed the seal and shower screen. The shower screen back was gummed up with coffee grains and oils. Once I scrubbed the the shower screen and socked in coffee cleaner for an hour or so it was perfectly clean. Group seal was as hard a rock so I binned it, before having a thought my Gaggia seal might fit, so I grabbed the old Giotto one back from the bin and as luck would have it, identical size to the Gaggia. I slipped Gaggia one over the shower screen assembly and put it back in the machine (after giving the internals above the shower screen a quick scrub with a cloth and plastic brush). I tested again with blind filter and leak was fixed and holding pressure nicely, happy days!

            Spent the next hour doing chemical backflushes and man pretty sure it has never has a chemical backflush. Took 20-30 backflushes (10 secs on/10 secs off) before and a few teaspoons of Cafetto before the water started running clear. Couldn't believe how much grains and oils came out. Then flushed with just water to clear out the cleaner 5-10 times.

            I made a couple of crappy shots with coffee to clear the group and remove any last cleaner hopefully but they were rough as I haven't had a chance to dial in the grind.

            Pretty stoked now as I think it is fully functioning machine. I didn't get to take any decent pics as I forgot but will try tomorrow. Sorry about the stupid question.

            Tomorrow I will try and dial in to make my first decent coffee.

            What are peoples thoughts on descaling a roughly 4 year old machine? Would you only do if necessary? my roaster who services machines doesn't think it should be required.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think a good indicator of scale build up is to check the mushroom. You can make a decision from there once you see how clean/dirty it is

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              • #8
                Reckon there are quite a lot of machines out there like this. People buy new then just run them without ever cleaning or servicing, then simply stop using them when the coffee starts coming out ordinary. A bit of effort on your part and you now have bargain of the century.

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                • #9
                  $700 is a bargain. Usual issues would be the group head seal as you've discovered. Potentially a weak pump. Next will be checking for scale build up and just spending a few hours descaling. What grinder are you using? Enjoy the new toy!

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                  • #10
                    DaveD - thanks will checkout the mushroom valve

                    saoye - I am using a Breville BCG 800.

                    I think I need some shims if Breville are still doing them, I just made a morning coffee with a good extraction from the Giotto but I am 1-2 clicks from the finest setting so not much room left to play with. This setting will choke the Gaggia Classic if tamped too hard or overdosed but OK for the Giotto, made a double shot ran with decent colour for 25 seconds and maybe 35 ml shot as a guess. Might be on the ristretto end of things but I didn't weigh the coffee. I used to stack in the Gaggia basket 22-23 grams of coffee, but I think it was prob more like 18-19 grams. Will make another coffee tonight and weigh the coffee and shot.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by roosterben View Post
                      What are peoples thoughts on descaling a roughly 4 year old machine? Would you only do if necessary? my roaster who services machines doesn't think it should be required.
                      Depends on what water was used. A while back I opened the boiler on my machine and found, after about 7 years of use with unfiltered Melbourne water, there was virtually no scale build up.
                      This was on a single boiler.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by roosterben View Post
                        DaveD - thanks will checkout the mushroom valve

                        saoye - I am using a Breville BCG 800.

                        I think I need some shims if Breville are still doing them, I just made a morning coffee with a good extraction from the Giotto but I am 1-2 clicks from the finest setting so not much room left to play with. This setting will choke the Gaggia Classic if tamped too hard or overdosed but OK for the Giotto, made a double shot ran with decent colour for 25 seconds and maybe 35 ml shot as a guess. Might be on the ristretto end of things but I didn't weigh the coffee. I used to stack in the Gaggia basket 22-23 grams of coffee, but I think it was prob more like 18-19 grams. Will make another coffee tonight and weigh the coffee and shot.
                        What is the brew pressure gauge reading when you draw a shot?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Pretty sure it was in the green zone 8-9 bar the whole shot (apart from the pre-infusion) so I can't be too far off the mark with grind setting. Although depends how big the steps are on the Breville.

                          I will take a shot video tonight if I get a chance, so I can time and also watch the gauges on playback.

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                          • #14
                            You can check the brew pressure using a blind filter. If it’s measuring pressure from the pump it will ideally be around 10 bar which I believe translates to around 9 bar at the group head.

                            I think you can adjust pressure on that model Giotto by turning a screw underneath the machine. Let’s you easily play around till you get it exactly where you want.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OK assuming the video embed works here is a shot video from this morning, one of the better coffees I have ever made at home. Shot ran for 30 seconds (not counting the 5 second pre-infusion), tasted bloody delicious. Didn't have time to weigh coffee or shot. Using some Single O reservoir blend beans.



                              If not here is a URL;
                              https://youtu.be/9w7g9_2Ij2M
                              Last edited by roosterben; 1 August 2018, 05:29 PM. Reason: Changed to YouTube vid

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