Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BZ10 owners - request for information on steaming performance

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • dbun
    replied
    As an update - ended up blocking one of the holes with a toothpick. Steaming is slightly slower, however quality of the micro foam is better as the boiler pressure staying high really makes a difference in keeping that whirlpool moving well.

    Leave a comment:


  • dbun
    replied
    Interesting......I bought the Bezzera 4 hole and 3 hole tip - I too had an issue with the 3 hole tip not being delivered and was refunded in the end.
    The 4 hole tip I found too powerful for the 150ml amount of milk I typically use for a single drink - Just destroyed any chance of good microfoam. It worked okay in a 600ml jug frothing milk for two drinks at the same time.

    The stock 2 hole tip is what I'm still using - I ended up getting good results after taking time to really play around with the steam wand position.

    I bought some other brand tips as well that screwed onto the wand okay, but the diameter of the tip was wider than the steam wand itself, so the steam tip flared out at the point where the steam tip meets the want once screwed all the way in. My OCD couldn't accept this!

    I've gotten decent milk these days, but didn't think to try other tips again to further improve the milk texture.

    I might look up those 2 and 3 hole tips you've mentioned above, thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • 392392
    replied
    So..... not sure if anyone still cares,
    but i went on a mission trying to improve the quality of the steamed milk this machine can make.
    I was getting decent steamed milk, but was not quite happy with the quality of it.
    Deduced that the boiler couldn't keep up with tips flow, so there isn't enough steam pressure to fold and create good microfoam.

    My machine was produced in 2016, so it uses the 8.2-8.5mm male steam tips (these are considered universal steam tips, as they actually are used in a very wide variety of machines)
    Stock tip is a 2x 1.5mm tip
    Steam enough milk for 2x180ml caps in about 30-35s (say 200ml of milk), 1x180ml cap (say 100ml of milk) in about 20seconds.

    Started off with a Rocket steam tip set,
    2x 1.0mm
    3x 1.5mm
    4x 1.5mm
    4. 1.2mm

    since the 3 and 4x 1.5mm tips are larger than the stock, i didn't really bother much to try them. I did give the 3x1.5mm tip a go, but no way the boiler is going to keep up with that.

    2x 1.0mm tip, produces ultrafine microfoam, but it is a fair bit slower. Great for latte art, but can be annoyingly slow. (200ml @ 45-55s, 100ml @ 30-35s)
    4x 1.2mm tip, produces slightly better microfoam than the stock tip, but at the same speed as the stock tip, small variances in timing, (im talking 1-2s, so it isn't noticeable unless you time it)

    Finally after scouring everywhere and with some dramas, i had managed to procure a 4x0.9mm tip and a 3x1,2mm tip. (drama = both those tips didn't get sent and had to be refunded).
    Managed however, to get a 3x1.2mm tip from a different source.

    Produces really good microfoam (still slightly courser than the 2x1.0mm tip, but miles better than the stock and 4x1.2 tip), and almost the same speed as the stock tip.

    Pressure figures below

    Steam pressure (without pulling shot)
    2x1.0mm (1.4bar start, valve fully open, pressure drops to 1.2-1.3bar and pretty much holds it there)
    3x1.2mm (1.4bar start, valve fully open, pressure drops to 1 bar after 30-35s, 0.9 bar after 35s and pretty much holds it there)
    3x1.5mm (1.4 bar start. valve fully open, pressure drops immediately to 1bar, 0.6bar after 10-15s, 0.5bar after 15, most times, too hot to continue timing)
    4x1.2mm (1.4 bar start, valve fully open, pressure drops immediate to 1.1/1.2 bar, 0.8 bar after 10-15s, 0.7 bar after 20-25s)
    2x1.5 (stock tip - 1.4 bar start, valve fully open, pressure drops immediate to 1.0/1.1 bar, 0.8 bar after 10-15s, 0.7/0.6 bar after 20-25s)

    Steam pressure (while shot running)
    2x1.0mm (similar to above, as the boiler is able to keep up the steam output)
    3x1.2mm (similar to above figures, but pressure drop comes earlier 1 bar at say 25s and it doesnt drop below 0.8/0.9bars
    3x1.5mm (not really worth mentioning, boiler struggling at near end of shot at 0.4bar)
    4x1.2mm (shot starts @ 1.4 bar, valve opens, pressure drops to 0.9 bar immediately, 0.7bar after 10-15s, 0.6 after.
    2x1.5mm (similar figures to 4x1.2mm, but loses boiler pressure slightly earlier)

    Verdict
    2x1.0mm - very forgiving, boiler is able to fully maintain pressure, so as long as you fold enough air in, you will get very very good microfoam. Slow though.
    3x1.2mm - good balance, speed and results. My fav of my tips atm.
    2x1.5mm (stock) - decent, but could be a lot better.
    4x1.2mm - better than stock, but that's about it.
    3 and 4x1.5mm - not suitable for BZ10

    Wishlist
    Am still trying to find a 4x0.9/1.0mm tip. Let me know if anyone has any?

    P/s, all above alternative steam tips lack a secondary o-ring in the tip, so the back pressure will cause the wand to be a burn-me wand. I teflon taped the tube, so it works similarly to the o-ring.

    Sorry for the long post =D

    Leave a comment:


  • 392392
    replied
    Alright,

    Quick update here;

    Those BZ10s with 8mm male tips; thread pitch is 0.75-0.8mm;
    Just so anyone is interested;

    Leave a comment:


  • 392392
    replied
    Originally posted by rustyfence View Post
    Thanks to a staff member from Jetblack Espresso, I've been able to try three (!) different ECM 10mm female tips with fine threads. They all fit the stock wand on the BZ10 perfectly. Here are the results (450ml Motta jug, 1/3 filled):

    ECM 10mm 1-hole tip
    Hex profile, long, with a conical end, hole looks about 1.5 mm dia
    Retains boiler pressure nice and high, still at 1.1-1.2 bar after 30 seconds.
    Excellent microfoam results
    About half the speed of the stock tip

    ECM 10mm 2-hole tip
    Tapered cylindrical profile with a spherical end, holes look about 1.0 mm dia
    Retains boiler pressure at 1.0-1.1 bar after 30 seconds.
    Excellent microfoam results
    About half the speed of the stock tip

    ECM 10mm 4-hole tip
    Tapered cylindrical profile with a spherical end, holes look about 1.2 mm dia
    Boiler pressure drops to 0.7 bar after 30 seconds
    Microfoam is a bit coarse (at least with my technique), produces similar result to stock tip
    About the same speed as the stock tip

    The 1-hole and 2-hole ECM tips were certainly much gentler than the stock tip, producing less tumbling and whirlpooling. But it seems the higher back pressure and slower heating provided by the ECM tips is a more important factor, and the foam just turned out much better. And for home use the slower texturing doesn't matter.

    So there ya have it! Thanks again to Jetblack staff and I hope this info helps out someone else heading down this path in the future ...
    Oooh thanks for this, may consider getting the same from jetblack

    Leave a comment:


  • rustyfence
    replied
    Thanks to a staff member from Jetblack Espresso, I've been able to try three (!) different ECM 10mm female tips with fine threads. They all fit the stock wand on the BZ10 perfectly. Here are the results (450ml Motta jug, 1/3 filled):

    ECM 10mm 1-hole tip
    Hex profile, long, with a conical end, hole looks about 1.5 mm dia
    Retains boiler pressure nice and high, still at 1.1-1.2 bar after 30 seconds.
    Excellent microfoam results
    About half the speed of the stock tip

    ECM 10mm 2-hole tip
    Tapered cylindrical profile with a spherical end, holes look about 1.0 mm dia
    Retains boiler pressure at 1.0-1.1 bar after 30 seconds.
    Excellent microfoam results
    About half the speed of the stock tip

    ECM 10mm 4-hole tip
    Tapered cylindrical profile with a spherical end, holes look about 1.2 mm dia
    Boiler pressure drops to 0.7 bar after 30 seconds
    Microfoam is a bit coarse (at least with my technique), produces similar result to stock tip
    About the same speed as the stock tip

    The 1-hole and 2-hole ECM tips were certainly much gentler than the stock tip, producing less tumbling and whirlpooling. But it seems the higher back pressure and slower heating provided by the ECM tips is a more important factor, and the foam just turned out much better. And for home use the slower texturing doesn't matter.

    So there ya have it! Thanks again to Jetblack staff and I hope this info helps out someone else heading down this path in the future ...

    Leave a comment:


  • rustyfence
    replied
    The tips have been claimed now by a forum member who can use them.

    Leave a comment:


  • rustyfence
    replied
    The folks at Jetblack espresso kindly got in touch with me about alternative tips to try, which might fit the BZ10.

    In the meantime I have two tips that aren't compatible with my machine, happy to give away to anybody who can make use of them. Both tips are unused, female thread, 10mm, coarse pitch.

    * First one has 2x1.2mm holes (Jetblack Espresso https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/...m-10mm-female/)
    * Second one is a single hole Silvia tip

    If no takers in this thread, I'll repost in the pay it forward section next week.

    Leave a comment:


  • chocdog
    replied
    I've got the Precision double basket from Talk Coffee. Depends what coffee I'm using, but does 17-19g.

    Leave a comment:


  • rustyfence
    replied
    Hey, thanks for the ideas and replies everybody.

    392392: I'm using a 22g basket in the stock portafilter with 21g of coffee no problem at the moment, though it does seem to take a little bit of extra time for the water to make its way through the puck and the pour to start. If filling with 22g of coffee I hit the showerscreen.
    robusto: Thanks for the tip about food safe solder, I didn't know that even existed. I'll check it out!
    392392: Yes, confirming my BZ10 wand does appear to be 10mm male. The 10mm female tip from Jetblack does fit diameter-wise, just not pitch-wise. Wonder if Bezzera changed wands at some point...
    Lyrebird: By rough count and measurement, the thread pitch for the BZ10 seems to be 1.0mm

    Leave a comment:


  • tannyboy
    replied
    Originally posted by 392392 View Post
    Does anyone know whats the largest basket you can fit into the portafilter ?

    I guess maybe owners just list the largest basket they use? (bottomless doesnt count)
    I'm not sure if its the largest - but ive got a 22g Pesado basket since i've had the machine.

    Leave a comment:


  • 392392
    replied
    Does anyone know whats the largest basket you can fit into the portafilter ?

    I guess maybe owners just list the largest basket they use? (bottomless doesnt count)

    Leave a comment:


  • liberdade
    replied
    On my Bezzera (Domus Galatea, 2L HX), the steam is very 'blasty.' It starts at 1.35 and goes down to ~1 straight away. Usually the steaming happens very quickly and is done before it goes much lower than that. One thing I notice is it 'recovers' to 1.35 almost instantly when I turn the steam off. If anything the issue I have is 'wet' steam. I've wondered recently if there might be an advantage in lowering the water level slightly.

    I'm not sure what the thread is like on the BZ10 arm, but I had some joy with the Profitec tips that Jet Black espresso sell. If I use the Prof fine two-hole it maintains higher pressure, the only thing is I had to take out the non-burn tubing on the Bezzera arm, because the Profitec tip is slimmer on the inside. If you decide to buy a different tip to the default one I would be wary of the seal around the non burn tubing if yours has that.
    Last edited by liberdade; 15 September 2019, 12:18 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CafeLotta
    replied
    Originally posted by rustyfence View Post
    Still disappointed/scratching my head over why the machine isn't grunty enough to maintain pressure with the two-hole tip. Heating element on the way out, perhaps?

    Or maybe a de-calc is in order? I have the gear to descale but never been game to try - the manufacturer doesn't recommend.
    You could always get in contact with the Australian Distributor Barazi Bezzera Coffee Machines and discuss your concerns. They seem to be very good at addressing Bezzera owners queries.

    Leave a comment:


  • tannyboy
    replied
    To be honest I've never noticed the issue with the steam pressures only if im doing a really big jug.
    It's literally in the shop for a service right now, but i'll report back when i've got in back on the bench.

    I'm running the stock tip and seems to be humming along okay.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X