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  • Apartmento Giotto Mozzafiato

    Upgrading from a Silvia without PID that is now 7 years old and a bit tired.
    looking at the 3 above, in day to day use am I going to see the difference of the PID?
    primary use will be a single shot and textured milk twice a day, maybe a little more at weekends.
    I have a good grinder a Compak K3Push.
    Is the extra $300+ price difference worthwhile?
    Thank you

  • #2
    I've got a Rocket Giotto Premium Plus Hx no PID and it works just fine.

    If you don't think you will be tweaking the temp to get the absolute best out of your beans, and just want to make a nice flat white or latte, then I don't think you need a PID.
    I could have bought a machine with a PID when I got mine, but honestly I thought I would set it once and then never touch it again.

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    • #3
      I'm not sure what you mean by the extra $ 300 price difference. Difference between the Silvia and the $3000+ machines?

      In any case, the difference will mainly be the ability to brew
      your shot and steam milk simultaneously without waiting for recuperation as you do with Silvia.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by robusto View Post
        I'm not sure what you mean by the extra $ 300 price difference. Difference between the Silvia and the $3000+ machines?

        In any case, the difference will mainly be the ability to brew
        your shot and steam milk simultaneously without waiting for recuperation as you do with Silvia.
        Thanks, sorry... I wasn’t clear. The $300 is the difference between the Apartamento and the other two.

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        • #5
          Oh. So not the difference you might notice between Silvia and the others.

          So their difference will be PID control or pressurestat control.

          I've always maintained that PIDs on heat exchanger machines are superfluous.

          A good pressurestat is quite capable of controlling temperature and reacts very very quickly to pressure (temperature) changes within its deadband.

          Remember, small on/off applications of heat via any controller are'nt necessarily going to translate into meaningful changes of brew water temperature in a HX machine. In fact I'll make that won't translate.

          So the only advantage of the PID is to tell you what the temperature is within the machine wherever the thermocouple is installed.

          So I'd be looking for other points of difference such as build quality etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everyone for posting your thoughts comments and advice.
            Went to a bricks and mortar family owned dealer here in Perth today to look at the Rocket offerings and a couple of ECM machines.
            It came down to the Rocket Mozzafiato and the ECM Mechanics V Slim.
            Both great machines. The Rocket has a PID, otherwise not much between them mechanically.
            In pure aesthetics the ECM wins hands down. It a beautiful piece of machinery. It also pleases my darling with its smaller footprint.

            So the ECM Mechanika v Slim wins.

            Now to run a few kg of beans through the grinder

            Comment


            • #7
              Great to hear 'pixx...

              Performance wise, both machines are very close and if your lovely lady has made a choice she's happy with, then it's a big win all around...

              Mal.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by robusto View Post
                I've always maintained that PIDs on heat exchanger machines are superfluous.

                A good pressurestat is quite capable of controlling temperature and reacts very very quickly to pressure (temperature) changes within its deadband.

                Remember, small on/off applications of heat via any controller aren't necessarily going to translate into meaningful changes of brew water temperature in a HX machine. In fact I'll make that won't translate.

                So the only advantage of the PID is to tell you what the temperature is within the machine wherever the thermocouple is installed.
                100% with you on that one..... A PID and associated hardware will probably outlast a pressurestat but will also be about 4-6x the cost of the pressurestat to replace when the time comes. Whether a PID would outlive 4 pressurestats? I'm not convinced on that one..

                Good that you found something which works for you flash.... Enjoy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  As luck would have it, after setting up the Mechanika and running some water through it, I’ve discovered my Compak K3 Push is jammed. I suspect my darling may have used it to grind something other than coffee.
                  So I’ve not pulled a shot from the new toy as yet, Im either up for a repair or replace.
                  The ECM C54 looks nice

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My Sirai pressurestat is at the very very least 12 years old. I've taken it apart twice just for a checkup and gave it a clean bill of health. Nice supple diaphragm. Removed, cleaned the contacts and all good as a new $80 one. Bulletproof.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by flashpixx View Post
                      As luck would have it, after setting up the Mechanika and running some water through it, I’ve discovered my Compak K3 Push is jammed. I suspect my darling may have used it to grind something other than coffee.
                      So I’ve not pulled a shot from the new toy as yet, Im either up for a repair or replace.
                      The ECM C54 looks nice

                      What exactly do you mean when you say the K3 is 'jammed'? Have you tried taking the top burr off? Or even just winding the grind out by a large amount?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
                        What exactly do you mean when you say the K3 is 'jammed'? Have you tried taking the top burr off? Or even just winding the grind out by a large amount?
                        Can’t adjust the grind it’s stuck in position, can’t turn it left (coarser) or right (finer). If I turn it on to grind, the motor doesn’t turn the burrs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by flashpixx View Post
                          Can’t adjust the grind it’s stuck in position, can’t turn it left (coarser) or right (finer). If I turn it on to grind, the motor doesn’t turn the burrs.
                          What did your friend try to grind? Superglue?

                          I'm guessing that you've had a look from above? And there's nothing that you can see and break up with a sharp implement?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by flashpixx View Post
                            As luck would have it, after setting up the Mechanika and running some water through it, I’ve discovered my Compak K3 Push is jammed. I suspect my darling may have used it to grind something other than coffee.
                            So I’ve not pulled a shot from the new toy as yet, Im either up for a repair or replace.
                            The ECM C54 looks nice
                            That's convenient LOL
                            can't believe your wife fell for that one

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dibs on the k3 hopper!

                              Comment

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