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  • applor
    replied
    Just came back to this thread and the discussion has been great.

    Back when I tried repairing mine I also came to the conclusion that the transformer was the likely cause but could not find a Myrra 44950.
    Luckily I found an entire GICAR for $80

    Thanks to Noidle I can now replace the transformer and hopefully have a spare GICAR.

    edit: krindog I am not sure if you're receiving my PM's, I am not sure because they are not appearing in my sent folder.
    I am also looking to buy an AS3012 if you can order me one too and split shipping?
    Last edited by applor; 30 January 2020, 04:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Mentioned above that the shipping for this item from TME is pretty steep...

    Mal.
    Click image for larger version

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  • noidle22
    replied
    Originally posted by krindog View Post
    Thanks noidle!

    That chinese one is shut for chinese new year and wont ship for a while yet.

    Is there any reason the TEZ2 one in harrisons link above wouldn't work (assuming the physical size is the same)?
    The only difference is the amp rating which is 57mA for both.
    I could get this one quicker (found it on ebay for less shipping cost too).

    So excited to know the cause of issue now!!
    Didn't notice that post from earlier, my bad. It should be fine to use, the circuit should only draw the current it requires from that winding at the rated voltage, 57mA is just the output limit.

    The resistance of the winding will be different than the Myrra but this shouldn't affect other parts of the circuit. This can be a concern with replacement relays, if the coil resistance is higher than the original the driver circuit can be stressed.

    Leave a comment:


  • krindog
    replied
    Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
    Certainly is. Primary winding is open circuit.

    You'll still see 240V at the pins as they connect directly to the 240V supply but as the coil is open, nothing much else happens.

    You definitely need a new transformer. If you google Myrra 44950, there should be a result for a "custom potting transformer" AS3012. This looks to be the right one, about $16.
    You can also contact RS Components, they stock a lot of Myrra transformers and may be able to get it in.

    Other option is finding the shop that sold that guy the control box for $80 which is exceptionally cheap. For that price it could just be easier to buy the whole box.
    Thanks noidle!

    That chinese one is shut for chinese new year and wont ship for a while yet.

    Is there any reason the TEZ2 one in harrisons link above wouldn't work (assuming the physical size is the same)?
    The only difference is the amp rating which is 57mA for both.
    I could get this one quicker (found it on ebay for less shipping cost too).

    So excited to know the cause of issue now!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    You definitely need a new transformer. If you google Myrra 44950, there should be a result for a "custom potting transformer" AS3012. This looks to be the right one, about $16.
    Nice find on this one "noidle"...

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • noidle22
    replied
    Originally posted by krindog View Post
    I tested between the other two which i'm assuming based on the pin layout is the primary AC, and got OL or no continuity.

    I wonder could this be an issue at all?
    Certainly is. Primary winding is open circuit.

    You'll still see 240V at the pins as they connect directly to the 240V supply but as the coil is open, nothing much else happens.

    You definitely need a new transformer. If you google Myrra 44950, there should be a result for a "custom potting transformer" AS3012. This looks to be the right one, about $16.
    You can also contact RS Components, they stock a lot of Myrra transformers and may be able to get it in.

    Other option is finding the shop that sold that guy the control box for $80 which is exceptionally cheap. For that price it could just be easier to buy the whole box.

    Leave a comment:


  • krindog
    replied
    But as I mentioned in a previous post, when powered on, i measure 240V accross pin 1 and 5 (the primary ac winding).

    Leave a comment:


  • krindog
    replied
    Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
    Interesting, it certainly is a two output.

    You won't see DC coming out of the transformer, it operates on AC. The AC output of the transformer goes to the bridge rectifier (small round black part at the top left) where it changes to DC and feeds the rest of the system.

    You can just check the transformer windings using your resistance setting on the multimeter. This is with the power off to the board. Measure the resistance on the primary winding (240V side) then measure the two output coils. The primary should be around 2-5K ohm and the secondary's much less, usually below 100 ohm. If you see a steady reading and it isn't open circuit, it's likely ok.
    So with the transformer, there was approx 60ohms on one secondary and approx 200ohms on the other.
    I tested between the other two which i'm assuming based on the pin layout is the primary AC, and got OL or no continuity.

    I wonder could this be an issue at all?

    The bridge rectifier tested ok.

    Leave a comment:


  • noidle22
    replied
    Originally posted by krindog View Post
    The Gicar model is a RL30/1E/2 C/C. (Had to put a space between 2 and C otherwise it changed to second crack )

    https://ibb.co/hLm86W6

    That TEM looks like the same thing virtually, a small difference in the current ratings?
    Interesting, it certainly is a two output.

    You won't see DC coming out of the transformer, it operates on AC. The AC output of the transformer goes to the bridge rectifier (small round black part at the top left) where it changes to DC and feeds the rest of the system.

    You can just check the transformer windings using your resistance setting on the multimeter. This is with the power off to the board. Measure the resistance on the primary winding (240V side) then measure the two output coils. The primary should be around 2-5K ohm and the secondary's much less, usually below 100 ohm. If you see a steady reading and it isn't open circuit, it's likely ok.

    Leave a comment:


  • krindog
    replied
    So further testing today:

    Relay actually seems ok, I powered the coil with 24V and it switched - and i checked continuity during switching and it all seems fine.

    Ive run the multimeter over the transformer and the input pins 1 and 5) is showing 240V across it (with and without the level sensor terminal plugged in).
    But the two dc outputs are not showing any voltage (with or without the level sensor plugged in).
    The level sensor comes into the gicar and travels straight to one of the dc outputs of the transformer, so Im assuming this acts as the negative for that dc output.

    Could the transformer be faulty in this case?

    Would be so easy to replace to check if it was available!

    Leave a comment:


  • krindog
    replied
    Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
    What model is the Gicar box? I've never seen a multi winding transformer with different outputs used in any control boxes before. Can you provide a photo of the transformer you have?

    They're usually just a single output, 18V is common.
    Sometimes a twin output of the same voltage is used in which case they are paralleled.
    The Gicar model is a RL30/1E/2 C/C. (Had to put a space between 2 and C otherwise it changed to second crack )

    https://ibb.co/hLm86W6

    That TEM looks like the same thing virtually, a small difference in the current ratings?

    Leave a comment:


  • noidle22
    replied
    Originally posted by krindog View Post
    I hope its not the transformer, my transformer is a 240V, with 15V and 20V outputs and I haven't found that exact one online yet.
    What model is the Gicar box? I've never seen a multi winding transformer with different outputs used in any control boxes before. Can you provide a photo of the transformer you have?

    They're usually just a single output, 18V is common.
    Sometimes a twin output of the same voltage is used in which case they are paralleled.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Originally posted by harrison6987 View Post
    Potentially something like this? https://www.tme.com/au/en/details/te...2-d230-15-20v/ (not a sponsor site). Not sure where to get in Aus - looks like this is in Poland.
    Pretty horrendous shipping costs on this though...

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • harrison6987
    replied
    Originally posted by krindog View Post
    harrison6987: I hope its not the transformer, my transformer is a 240V, with 15V and 20V outputs and I haven't found that exact one online yet.
    Potentially something like this? https://www.tme.com/au/en/details/te...2-d230-15-20v/ (not a sponsor site). Not sure where to get in Aus - looks like this is in Poland.

    Leave a comment:


  • krindog
    replied
    Originally posted by roosterben View Post
    If you wanted to bring your machine down you are welcome to try the Gicar box out to isolate your problem.
    Roosterben: Thanks mate - If the relay replacement doesn't work ill drop you a pm!

    harrison6987: I hope its not the transformer, my transformer is a 240V, with 15V and 20V outputs and I haven't found that exact one online yet.

    Jackster: So my testing on the relay in the Gicar would be before the pump, right? So shouldn't I be getting 240V (same as the solenoid terminal next to it on the relay)
    Im going to power the relay coil with 24V tomorrow and do a standalone test on the relay.

    Its great to have a place to come for assistance, and hopefully if I sort my issue out it'll be some info for others to use.

    Leave a comment:

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