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Indeed it did l3n. My machine, a non-electronic version of the La Cimbali M28 Basic 2-group, cost me $30/mth in electricity to run 24/7 which with it running in the cold winter months here (It hit -25C here the other night and Winter hasn't even officially started yet.) reduced the heating bill by ~$150/mth. More details can be found here in the post from 13 years ago.
That's hardly a straight comparison. If your electricity cost is say 15 c per kWh then the machine is using about 200 kWh / month. 200 kWh is 720 MJ, if that is saving $150 in utilities you are either paying 21c per MJ, in which case you need to get your heating fixed, or you are comparing apples with oranges.
It appears to depend on the machine warming the area in which the thermostat is mounted, causing the heat to the rest of the building to turn on less frequently. Surelyy the same effect could be had by turning the thermostat down?
Last edited by Lyrebird; 12 December 2019, 07:53 PM.
That's hardly a straight comparison. If your electricity cost is say 15 c per kWh then the machine is using about 200 kWh / month. 200 kWh is 720 MJ, if that is saving $150 in utilities you are either paying 21c per MJ, in which case you need to get your heating fixed, or you are comparing apples with oranges.
It appears to depend on the machine warming the area in which the thermostat is mounted, causing the heat to the rest of the building to turn on less frequently. Surelyy the same effect could be had by turning the thermostat down?
Or, as your last sentence shows, you are making assumptions/jumping to conclusions with-out a complete understanding of the environment/variables. The main one being the house is 3 stories (A mostly below grade basement with 2 above grade stories all of which are the same size and stacked directly on top of each other.) with the 3 floors being isolated from each other via enclosed staircases and doors.
Hard to see how that creates free energy. Perhaps you can explain?
FWIW the assumption re the thermostat came from your previous post, referenced above. Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote but it seemed fairly clear.
BTW one reason I am interested in this is that I've spent much of the last year designing and building a very energy efficient* house. The thermodynamics calculations included accounting for the effect of having a coffee machine running. In my case it costs money in winter because it's a more expensive heat source than our main heat source (heat pump and HRV system).
* We used the German Passivhaus principles but we didn't go as far as true Passivhaus certification, we couldn't afford it.
Last edited by Lyrebird; 13 December 2019, 03:45 PM.
Creating free energy? Seriously? Please show me where I claimed to create free energy. The only claim I made was that my heating bill was reduced and I stated in the 2006 post how it was done.
By running the Cimbali on the first floor in the room next to the furnaces thermostat that area is no longer being heated just by the furnace. Instead all the waste heat from the Cimbali is heating up the area causing the furnace to turn on much less frequently and saving me $100 a month in heating bills while only costing me $20 a month in operating costs for the Cimbali. As a result even when you add on the cost of operating the Cimbali in the summer when the furnace isnt running the net savings over the course of a year is multiple hundreds of dollars.*
Very simple and straight forward. The furnace ran less frequently hence consuming less fuel, hence costing less to run. Simple and straightforward.
As to being able to do the same thing simply by turning the thermostat down it won't work here with the temperature extremes we see. The temp on the first floor would vary significantly rather than remaining constant and areas in the basement and 2nd floor would likely get cold enough to freeze the water pipes in them.
Java "Yeah it gets cold here" phile
*The dollar amounts in the quote are in USD (An earlier amount in the paragraph was shown to be in USD so the USD was left off of amounts after that one.) and were converted to $AUS in my earlier post in this thread.
The explanation you have offered is indeed simple and straighforward.
You said $30 PM running cost on the coffee machine saved you $150 PM in heating costs.
You imply that the house stayed at the same temperature. I have assumed that your heating cost per MJ is similar to your electricity cost per MJ*. Correct me if I am wrong.
With the above assumptions, you are claiming $120 PM of energy for free.
* I think you are in North America so I've assumed you are likely to be paying around 4c per MJ for heating and around 15 c per kWh for electricity, in which case costs per MJ are very similar. Again correct me if I am wrong.
As I said in my first post, you would have to be paying 20c per MJ for your story to add up.
Last edited by Lyrebird; 13 December 2019, 09:48 PM.
Brace yourself gentlemen, this may offend your sensibilities!
There's so much free space in the E98 case, I decided to bodgy up an alternative mount for the vibe pump. Using the original hard rubber mounts, I've hung the pump from a steel plate, which sits on a pair of softer foam rubber blocks, with plenty of clearance for the inlet and outlet fittings.
If fits in the same position in the case, and clears all the pipes and fittings, etc. I've also added a 600 gram steel block to the top plate to further dampen the vibrations. Unfortunately, it is still coupled to the machine by the Teflon/braided outlet hose.
I don't think it has the durability of the original mount, but it sound sooooo sweet.
With the above assumptions, you are claiming $120 PM of energy for free.
Once again and for the final time I have made no such claim, only you with your incorrect assumptions have.
Despite your being told multiple times your assumptions/interpretation are incorrect you continue to behave as if they're not. This leads to but one logical conclusion, that you have chosen to intentionally misinterpret what I have said simply to troll. Ergo this conversation is over. Go troll elsewhere.
Javaphile, if the the furnace ran less frequently, wouldn't the temperature in the house fall accordingly because it's not being heated as much?
The temp setting on the thermostat was not changed so the 1st floor, where the thermostat and Cimbali are located and where I spend the vast majority of my waking hours, remains at the same 20C temp as before.
As you surmised, and as one would expect given the stated conditions, the temp in the basement and the 2nd floor did indeed fall. Hence the reduced heating bill. Both of these floors see but a few minutes of activity per day so there's no need to keep them constantly at 20C. On the 2nd floor the only time one is exposed to the ambient temp there is when getting dressed and when walking to the bathroom. I prefer to sleep in cool, some would say cold, temps snuggled in under a flannel sheet and a nice heavy blanket and bedspread. All nice and toasty warm even on the coldest of winter nights.
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