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  • Confusion on machine type

    First time poster, long time reader

    We have been using a Nespresso Creatista Plus with Nespresso pods and had the machine break down on the weekend. We are now thinking of purchasing a new machine:

    we like the Breville Oracle Touch - as it looks like a good semi-automatic machine- not sure if the price is worth the value of product though
    I have seen some good units from Profitec and Rocket - as I have a big family are these units fairly straight forward and quick to use. I am use to the Nespresso so this may be a change but had a similar machine in the past.

    Cheers,

    John

  • #2
    Breville Oracle touch is going to produce some good quality shots, about as a good as automatic machines can. You have to keep in mind that it is a domestic appliance which is very complex and only really serviceable by Breville. Another couple of options you could consider Breville Barista Express BES 870, there is also a BES 880 touch which has auto milk frothing and the BES 920 Dual Boiler (often paired with the BCG 820 Pro Grinder). There are mixed views on the Breville machines around longevity but I wouldn't buy one without and extended warranty particularly the Oracle.

    Profitec and Rocket machines are going to last a lot longer but are fully manual for making the coffee shot and milk frothing and require a really good quality grinder to get the best out of them. Pre-ground beans are not really an option unless you are getting a espresso ground beans from a cafe. But as they are very sensitive to grind fineness you need a grinder. I think these are feasible if you have one person who sets up the grinder and the dose amount of coffee but you would need to help other users get started. These types of machines have industry standard commercial components so can be serviced and repaired by pretty much any coffee technician. Something else you might consider with volumetric controls (this means delivers a set amount of water to the coffee puck) like Expobar Office Control, ECM Elektronika II Profi, Grimac Mia. These at least mean as long as the grind is correct you can just press a double shot button to run the coffee shot.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi John, welcome.
      To be blunt, nothing will ever be as convenient as a pod machine. Roasted coffee goes stale in a matter of weeks after roasting (~2-6 weeks depending on roast levels). If you want maximum convenience an Oracle is the best option (either standard BES980 or Touch BES990). If you can handle tamping a Barista Touch BES880 will do the milk for you the same way your Creatista Plus did If you can handle doing milk manually then the world's your oyster.

      What's your budget? How much is this going to be a hobby vs "just give me the coffee"?

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the reply, the more I read up the more I am thinking going for the rocket. We like the giotto not sure if rotary tap is required if we dont get it plumbed. We also have a zip unit not sure if that type of filtration makes a difference.

        For us it will be to have coffee but we do often go to our local cafe.

        What are comparables to a giotto and why would you go rotary pump?

        Comment


        • sam678
          sam678 commented
          Editing a comment
          If you think you will ever plumb in the machine, you will need a rotary pump to do so.

          Many of the prosumer machines, including the Rocket Giotto, have the e61 group in common. The choice is between single boiler, HX or dual boiler machines.

          If you are steaming milk, then, your options are HX or dual boiler. All e61 machines can make both good or bad coffee depending on the users level of experience.

          Milk drinks are more forgiving. Espresso is more demanding.

          Choosing the right grinder is as important as the espresso machine. Spend more than you feel comfortable with on your grinder.

          Lastly, consider used equipment from this site. It is often owned by hobbyists and is generally well looked after.

        • saeco_user
          saeco_user commented
          Editing a comment
          >>If you think you will ever plumb in the machine, you will need a rotary pump to do so.
          Not completely true. I have a La Cimbali which fills a small tank by line pressure and from this uses a vibe pump to feed the group. I know because I'm just in the process of replacing the pump. Not sure how many other machines may work like this.

      • #5
        Rotary pumps are generally quieter and can be plumbed. Going from a new Speedo machine to a manual machine, without prior experience, could be an overwhelming and frustrating step. It may be difficult to get consistent results. If you haven’t had experience in pulling shots and steaming milk a barista course will serve you well. You also need to think about a grinder. It needs to be at least equal to the espresso machine to get the best out of your setup.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by crazyhakins View Post
          If you haven’t had experience in pulling shots and steaming milk a barista course will serve you well. You also need to think about a grinder. It needs to be at least equal to the espresso machine to get the best out of your setup.
          Second this advice, highly recommended...

          Mal.

          Comment


          • #7
            Thanks for the feedback, some background is I had a pull machine sometime ago but we went with a pod based set up when we renovated the kitchen. What are comparable products to a Giotto? Are rockets really the ferrari of the machine world they say they are?

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            • #8
              Profitec machines often get mentioned alongside Rocket. You wouldn’t go wrong with either of those brands.

              Comment


              • #9
                Rockets often look a bit better (subjectively) and charge a bit more, but performance/feature wise are much the same or maybe not quite as good as some of the other less flashy brands. But you will get similar build quality and performance from Rocket, ECM, Profitec, Bezzara and Izzo and probably a few others I have missed.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by roosterben View Post
                  Rockets often look a bit better (subjectively) and charge a bit more, but performance/feature wise are much the same or maybe not quite as good as some of the other less flashy brands. But you will get similar build quality and performance from Rocket, ECM, Profitec, Bezzara and Izzo and probably a few others I have missed.
                  See you there you go, I prefer the look of the Profitec machines. It’s all in the eye of the beholder. With the exception of the Nine One, which most of us can only drool over anyway, and at $9k you’d want it to look super sexy.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by crazyhakins View Post
                    See you there you go, I prefer the look of the Profitec machines. It’s all in the eye of the beholder. With the exception of the Nine One, which most of us can only drool over anyway, and at $9k you’d want it to look super sexy.
                    At the level of machine you're looking at it's probably going to come down to a few things, the quality of espresso these machines produce is comparable:
                    -Rotary vs Vibration pump
                    -Copper vs Stainless boiler
                    -Joystick vs rotary valve steam/water

                    I tried HX machines from ECM, Bezzera, Rocket & Profitec when choosing my last machine. I ended up with an ECM (Technika V) based on build quality, rotary pump (sooo quiet, option to be plumbed in) and my personal preference for joystick operation over rotary valves. Also the inclusion of PID/shot timer is a nice little extra.

                    Whatever machine you choose will be an exponential improvement over what you're currently using, it all comes down to getting the features you want at the price you want to pay. Using the quote function on this site is a great starting point if you're intent on buying new, as is the for sale section if you're looking for quality used equipment.

                    As others have said, you can throw all the money in the world at a fancy espresso machine but even the best machine ain't gonna make good coffee out of poorly ground beans - a good grinder is an absolute necessity.

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                    • #12
                      thanks for the reply what is the quote function first time I have heard about it?

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                      • #13
                        Originally posted by intern1 View Post
                        thanks for the reply what is the quote function first time I have heard about it?
                        It's pretty self explanatory really; you supply info on what you require/want to spend & it is sent to the numerous site sponsors to respond to.
                        Click the link at the top of the page between"Coffee Roasters" & "Contact Us."

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by intern1 View Post
                          thanks for the reply what is the quote function first time I have heard about it?
                          Putting your search terms into quotation marks to improve your search result. Personally, I have always found using google the easiest way to get thread hits on coffeesnobs. As MxD has said, there‘a a few big features you need to decide on, and then there’s the little nuances of each brand and machine in their range. Getting into see them and demo them is a great way to decide. In my case I just did my research and bought one and had it delivered. I may have chosen differently if I’d got to see more machines but I’m happy with mine and any of the brands mentioned here will perform well for you so long as you know how to get the best out of them. But that’s all part of the journey and we’re always improving our techniques and brew methods. It’s a rabbit hole with no end.

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                          • #15
                            Originally posted by MxD View Post
                            It's pretty self explanatory really; you supply info on what you require/want to spend & it is sent to the numerous site sponsors to respond to. Click the link at the top of the page between"Coffee Roasters" & "Contact Us."
                            Oh that’s what you meant. I had no idea about that feature!

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