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Expobar Minore IV vs ECM synchronika?

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  • hugz
    replied
    Bought the ECM today. So far, so good

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  • roosterben
    replied
    There are plenty more dual boiler machines as well Profitec Pro 700, Rocket R58, Izzo Alex Dueto, VBM Domobar Super 2B. I guess with regular maintenance any of the brands are going to last a long time, most of the failures happen because most machines just don't get looked after until something blows up.

    Re the steel frame, as long as you don't have internal leaks (and get a machine serviced), apart from machines like Silvia which have a design flaw you aren't really going to see any rust in the frame. Just make sure you wipe down and don't leave water under the drip tray when you empty it.

    I think some of the machines get a wrap as they are not benched tested or setup properly from the resellers.This Expobar Minore I am working on was running about 13 bar at the group and the steam pressure 1.7 bar. How it ended up like this from the distributor and from being serviced multiple times by coffee technicians (per the sticker on the machine) I just don't know. The last three VBM machines I worked on were also running 12-13 bar pressure so I don't know how the owners got any decent coffee out of them. Most of the machines are 10 years old and as noted by most of the CS sponsors they do a bench test and adjust steam and brew pressure before delivery so hopefully you are not going to see this on new machines.

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  • Hoggy42
    replied
    I'm going to throw in another option if you are looking at those 2 machines why not have one in the middle the Isomac Pro Dual Boiler PID at Jetblack for $3,890
    https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/...ual-boiler-pid

    I've had an Expobar Office Control an Isomac Tea II (Still have it) and an ECM Giotto 2005 worked on all 3. I liked my Expobar but the bodywork on the machine is cheap it was not aging well but it did the job. Next up the Isomac, it has a full Stainless steel chassis, and other than needing a restrictor on the HX thermosyphon and a few adjustments I can't fault it I'm not sure why but I see a few people give them terrible write up's normally for minor issues easily fixed. ECM no doubt have a great name and make fantastic machines also good resale because of that. However, looking inside the machine I don't understand what all the fuss is about it's not all that different the Giotto that is I can't comment on the dual boiler I do agree though the stell chassis does leave the machine exposed to rust should there be a leak that goes un-identified.

    Anyway something else to consider.

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  • hugz
    replied
    Aside from steam valves (cheap) what kind of repairs would a machine like this need that would cause the costs to build up? The PID issue sounds like a big concern. If I get a minore I might insulate the PID I guess

    The steel frame on the ECM is a concern for me. Wherever there is steel, rust will come.

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  • LeroyC
    replied
    I reckon these are two machines that both offer fair value for money at their respective prices. Pretty much for the reasons already mentioned above.

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  • roosterben
    replied
    ECM build quality is superior, the quality of metal used in the drip tray, the internal cover that the water tank sits on and, drip tray cover, the E61 brew lever and the group handles are all lower quality than you will find in the ECM (and most other E61 machines made in Italy).

    Internally the Expobar is put together nicely but they are pretty well known for PID failures as the PID seems to be exposed heat/moisture. I have been repairing one over the last couple of weeks which is on its third PID and the machine is about 10 years old and have had a good look around the internals (Minore iii).

    Quality in the cup would be about the same, long term ownership I think the ECM is going to cost you less in repairs.

    Leave a comment:


  • hugz
    started a topic Expobar Minore IV vs ECM synchronika?

    Expobar Minore IV vs ECM synchronika?

    These 2 machines are almost at different ends of the spectrum. The Minore is $2500 and the ECM is $4700- Almost twice the price.


    In reality, what's the difference? Dual boiler, PID, e61. The ECM has a slightly larger steam boiler (1.5L vs 2L) but the Minore has a significantly larger brew boiler (1.5L vs 0.75L). The expobar has more powerful heating elements than the ECM (2000+2000 vs 1200+1400). The only benefits I can see to the ECM are aesthetics, rotary pump, low water sensor, joystick steam. Is that it? Do they produce an equally good coffee in the cup? How's the reliability? The Minore is old, which can be both good and bad

    I don't intend to plumb it in.
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