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Brown water drained from tank of brand new HX machine

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  • snoopen
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks very much Java "very helpful" phile!

    The hydraulic diagram is great and cross-referencing with the machine open gives me a great understanding of its operation.

    Also very useful for a little shot timer project I have planned :-)

  • Javaphile
    replied
    Speaking of NS manuals here's the complete service manual for your machine, including a hydraulic diagram: https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/equ...l-english-only

    Sorry for the delay in posting this but there was an issue with uploading the manual due to it's large size. All is now well and the thread is open and the manual available for your reading pleasure.


    Java "Manuals are handy to have" phile

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  • snoopen
    commented on 's reply
    Haha, yep, I've obviously been reading the NS manuals. A lot of literal translations in those things!

  • Javaphile
    commented on 's reply
    He means the boiler Mal, Nuova calls it the Heater Tank. Probably one of those literal translation things.


    Java "Translate what?" phile

  • snoopen
    replied
    Oh I mean boiler

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  • Dimal
    commented on 's reply
    the water in the heater tank is isolated from all water outputs.
    By Heater Tank, do you mean the machine's Boiler or Water Reservoir?

  • snoopen
    replied


    Thanks kofekitt, javaphile and others for your inputs so far. I'll be continuing my discussion with the retailer as well. But it's good to get a sense check since I have no prior experience with a HX machine.

    Originally posted by Jayce View Post
    You really shouldn't be getting specks nor should you be getting brown water. However, you should also be flushing out your boiler more often - every 1-2 days is when I do it.
    Yeah... zero particles would be ideal and was my expectation. As for flushing out my tank, it doesn't sound like I have that option.

    Originally posted by kofekitt View Post
    Correct, it's one of the downsides of a HX fed hot water machine, there is very little boiler water turnover.
    If I understand kofekitt correctly the water in the heater tank is isolated from all water outputs. The only chance heater tank water has to escape would then be through the steam wand.

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  • Jayce
    replied
    You really shouldn't be getting specks nor should you be getting brown water. However, you should also be flushing out your boiler more often - every 1-2 days is when I do it because I don't like the idea of water sitting in the boiler tank being reboiled + possibly causing any chemical reactions with the copper (even though my water quality is excellent).

    I would flush out your boiler a few times to give it a bit of a clean first, then go from there.

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  • snoopen
    replied
    Ok cool I can see why then the water could get so ugly looking.

    So I have specks of junk in the water from the hot water wand. If I want to clean out, my only option without breaking open the brew water HX loop is to continually run water out of the wand through normal operation?
    Last edited by snoopen; 10 October 2020, 04:56 PM. Reason: Edit to make my question more clear

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  • kofekitt
    replied
    Originally posted by snoopen View Post
    .

    So the water I drained is the boiler water for steaming and not the same as the brew water that goes through the heat exchanger?
    Correct, it's one of the downsides of a HX fed hot water machine, there is very little boiler water turnover

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  • snoopen
    replied
    Yeah, I'm still not sure how the water is plumbed through the tank. It's a Nuova Simonelli Musica. I was told the group head brew water and hot water are both drawn from the same source.

    There's a "heater" drain port on the side of the tank which is where I "flushed the tank".

    So the water I drained is the boiler water for steaming and not the same as the brew water that goes through the heat exchanger?

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Always the rare exceptions and I should have added the usual caveat so let me correct that error: In an HX, with rare exceptions, machine brewing water never goes through the boiler while the hot water does.


    Java "Snoopen's equipment hasn't been identified" phile

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  • kofekitt
    replied
    Originally posted by Javaphile View Post

    In an HX machine brewing water never goes through the boiler while the hot water does. So in this situation it does matter whether the brown water came from the group head or the hot water wand.

    A single boiler machine draws both the brew water and hot water from the boiler, not an HX.


    Java "It pays to know ones equipment" phile
    Unless it's a HX fed hot water like on Nuova simonelli's (and some wega's)

    Koffee "who knows his equipment" kitt

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Originally posted by kofekitt View Post
    What do you mean you 'flushed the tank?' is the container of water from the group? if so, i would expect there to be a small amount of discoloration.

    It's important to understand the water from your hot water outlet is the same water that goes out your grouphead, they both come from the same place in the water tank, travel through the same heat exchanger, and never enter the boiler. It is the same water
    In an HX machine brewing water never goes through the boiler while the hot water does. So in this situation it does matter whether the brown water came from the group head or the hot water wand.

    A single boiler machine draws both the brew water and hot water from the boiler, not an HX.


    Java "It pays to know ones equipment" phile

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  • LeroyC
    replied
    That would be classified as good quality water in some places.

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