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ECM stiff lever problem- even after lubrication

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  • ECM stiff lever problem- even after lubrication

    Hey guys, Had my machine in for a service a month ago and was told that the reason the lever can become stiff or need extra effort to move is the stripping of lubricant from chemical backflush too often. I was doing once a week or a fortnight... So since then all I do is a quick water backflush after each daily use... But the lever gas became harder to move again, and takes more effort to push up and down than I can remember, and more effort than I think it should. So I called the tech back and they said - no daily water backflush? I took the complete lever assembly off the machine and back to the tech and he re-lubed it, and said it was fine. So I get home, reinstall the lever assembly and it is still too stiff? It's working as it should, just needs a lot of effort on the lever to move it up and down... I've watched all the YouTube videos on how to perform the lube procedure, an confident that I'm doing it right, the cam lobes are not worn, the rubber seals / gaskets are new and am using a liberal amount of food safe lube. Can anyone tell me what I'm missing? I really don't want to have to take the whole machine back to the workshop. And it's only 2 - 3 years old? Thanks.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Is the lobe nice and smooth? Sometimes it can get some roughness or minor grooves. If so, you could sand it smooth with fine wet and dry sandpaper which may help.

    Comment


    • #3
      Was the lever stiff before the initial service? If it's stiff and notchy, it's usually the valves or cam, if it just stiff to move, usually the cam seals. What food grade lube do you/the service company use? Some can actually cause swelling of seals or o'rings to make them more water tight. The ECM are prone to being a little stiffer because they use 3 cam seals unlike most other E61 groups with 2 cam seals

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fg1972 View Post
        Is the lobe nice and smooth? Sometimes it can get some roughness or minor grooves. If so, you could sand it smooth with fine wet and dry sandpaper which may help.
        Hi, thanks - yes the cam lobes are smooth.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by kofekitt View Post
          Was the lever stiff before the initial service? If it's stiff and notchy, it's usually the valves or cam, if it just stiff to move, usually the cam seals. What food grade lube do you/the service company use? Some can actually cause swelling of seals or o'rings to make them more water tight. The ECM are prone to being a little stiffer because they use 3 cam seals unlike most other E61 groups with 2 cam seals
          Hi kofekitt, not notchy - just really stiff to move up and down. Most demo and other machines I've used the levers on are no where near this stiff, and mine wasn't when it was new.... it has the 2 brand new seals/ gaskets in place and I've tried 2 different lubes.

          You mention 3 cam seals - I've only ever had the 2 thick black rubber washer gaskets.

          Thanks

          Comment


          • #6
            Ahh , i see. Your group seems to be an odd mix, has the stainless one piece mushroom, which normally comes with the 3 cam seal lower section and fancier brew lever, but yours has the normal E61 lever, so probably does take the two cam seals. Is it the 'Di Bartoli' model ECM Mechanika with black gauges?

            Comment


            • #7
              Try dabbing a little grease on the lever where it contacts the power switch. I find that helps with my VBM. If you're confident that the cam is well greased & isn't the cause, maybe you have a sticky/jammed valve? Strip down the whole group, regrease & assemble. It's a pretty easy job.

              Evan.

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              • #8
                Longshot here but I remember something similar on my Rocket Giotto. If you take the lever assembly off and pay attention to the order (and orientation) of the washers you might find one is in the wrong spot. You may need to refer to a parts diagram.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Check the positioning of the pump microswitch as well. With the machine turned off, push it in with a fingernail and then try the lever without the microswitch in the picture. Will help you determine where the problem lies. FWIW, I am not a fan of the ones without a roller fitted to the cam end of the switch.

                  If the the leva is still stiff with the switch pushed in, something is wrong. The cam and and the group valves will need to be checked. All surfaces should be cleaned up in any service to ensure smooth operation.

                  If the tech can't solve it, find a competent one!

                  Comment


                  • SanderP
                    SanderP commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Agree - any competent tech should be able to rebuild an E61 blindfolded!

                    Cheers

                • #10
                  Originally posted by kofekitt View Post
                  Ahh , i see. Your group seems to be an odd mix, has the stainless one piece mushroom, which normally comes with the 3 cam seal lower section and fancier brew lever, but yours has the normal E61 lever, so probably does take the two cam seals. Is it the 'Di Bartoli' model ECM Mechanika with black gauges?
                  Yes, it's the Di Bartoli one.

                  Should I think about changing to the 3 cam seal lower section and different brew lever?
                  Thanks

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by ev View Post
                    .... If you're confident that the cam is well greased & isn't the cause, maybe you have a sticky/jammed valve? Strip down the whole group, regrease & assemble. It's a pretty easy job.

                    Evan.
                    Thanks Evan, I think that might be the next job on the list...

                    Can anyone please recommend what lube/grease they think is the best?

                    Might as well have the right lube in there while I'm at it 😁

                    Comment


                    • Yelta
                      Yelta commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Any food grade grease will do the job Adam, I use Inox available in a tube from Jaycar, about $12, a tube will last you for years.
                      Last edited by Yelta; 25 November 2020, 01:28 PM. Reason: Spelling error

                    • ev
                      ev commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I use Loctite 8104 silicone grease.

                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Caffeinator View Post
                    Check the positioning of the pump microswitch as well. With the machine turned off, push it in with a fingernail and then try the lever without the microswitch in the picture. Will help you determine where the problem lies. FWIW, I am not a fan of the ones without a roller fitted to the cam end of the switch. If the the leva is still stiff with the switch pushed in, something is wrong. The cam and and the group valves will need to be checked. All surfaces should be cleaned up in any service to ensure smooth operation. If the tech can't solve it, find a competent one!
                    Hi, thanks for the advice. No difference with the switch pushed and held in. I may have to pull the top and bottom group valves for checking, cleaning and re-lubing (which I haven't done yet).. and yes, I might have to find a new tech! Cheers

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by roosterben View Post
                      Longshot here but I remember something similar on my Rocket Giotto. If you take the lever assembly off and pay attention to the order (and orientation) of the washers you might find one is in the wrong spot. You may need to refer to a parts diagram.
                      Thanks, I don't remember any "washers" just the 2 rubber gaskets / seals, a tubular sleeve and the spring. I'll have to check the parts diagram if I can find one. Cheers EDIT: found a parts diagram and looks like I've got all the parts in the correct place, nothing missing.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Here's the parts diagram
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • roosterben
                          roosterben commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I mean the second last part on the right of the lever assembly, small metal spring washer.

                          Other things is if you didn't seat the cam lever in the right position this could be causing your problems. I find it easier when installing the cam lever assembly to remove the top bolt and let the top valve sit there not under tension. This makes inserting the cam lever in the right position easy without spring pressure from above.

                          Also parts 46009 and 46004 may have rough edges and be making it hard for the cam to move up/down.

                          You can pull them out and give them a sand to smooth off any rough edges (or if they are too worn you can replace).

                          All you need to disassemble is an adjustable spanner with some electrical tape over the blades to protect the chrome bolts.

                      • #15
                        I could be wrong(yet again)but why not loosen without total dissembling the upper and then lower group valve sections in turn and then both at the same time.
                        Move your lever while the group valve sections are loose and see if it is still binding.
                        That should tell you if either one or both is the culprit.
                        You might as well service both but while you wait for parts this should be a simple test.
                        There are some good videos on servicing the E61group head on the net.

                        Disclaimer, I haven’t pulled one of these apart yet so hopefully more experienced minds will chime in if moving the lever while the valves are loosened is a no-no.

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