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HX Machine choices - Bezzera BZ10 vs Magica vs Lelit Mara X

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  • HX Machine choices - Bezzera BZ10 vs Magica vs Lelit Mara X

    Hi Snobs,
    Doing a lot of online research and self comparisons but would like to ask here also - after visiting a few stores and having mixed recommendations I'm still torn on which machine to upgrade to (moving away from a Breville entry level machine).

    The HX machines I've narrowed down to are:

    -Bezzera Magica (top end of my budget)
    -Bezzera BZ10
    -Lelit Mara X


    My budget can stretch if necessary but $2500 is max, I have researched dual boilers but HX will suit my needs, milk based drinker 1-2 a day, no parties etc.

    I've read a few comments and what I think I make of the choices are as follows,

    Bezzera has the better build quality/reliability/heritage
    Lelit has the newer tech (3x brew temp choices), internal PID to maintain consistent shots (have seen videos online of examples/temp readings) - only draw backs are quality of build externally and the longevity to be put to the test.
    E61 group lures me, tried and tested design, is it very temp stable after cooling flushes? (perhaps no flush req. on BZ10/Mara X)
    BZ10 I dislike the switch toggle (prefer E61 lever)
    BZ10 easier / cheaper to service
    Magica more expensive / top end of budget
    BZ10 has deeper shower screen - reading that can't dose over 17.5g max (perhaps can with VST 20g baskets??)
    E61 longer warm up time / BZ & Mara are the quickest heat up time

    Most important factors for me: consistent brew pressure and extraction temp to achieve cafe quality/flavour + reliability + nice steaming ability


    Whats everything here think?, one shop recommended Magica, another shop recommended Mara X, a third shop does not carry either of these models.
    Has anyone made the same decisions around this budget/specs for HX machines?

  • #2
    Of the options personally I’d stay clear from bezerra (I don’t like the internals) so I’d buy the Lelit. Good machine
    Look at the Quickmill Rubino also, that’s a good machine also

    Comment


    • #3
      Haven’t considered Quickmill - many thanks will check it out

      Comment


      • #4
        Quickmill looks great, however clearance seems very low once add cup & scales?

        Comment


        • #5
          As a satisfied Mara X owner (3 months now) the Lelit has my vote. Haven't used the others though.

          What I like about the Mara X:
          - Makes great coffee. The way the pump builds up pressure slowly leads to a very forgiving pressure profile. I turned down my maximum pressure to 6.5 bar (a very easy DIY adjustment) and this helps even more
          - I haven't checked temperature stability myself (plenty of reviewers have - it's very stable) but back to back shots taste consistent
          - No need for cooling flushes - minimal fuss
          - I really like how it looks. Build quality looks and feels solid in my opinion
          - It's very slim which is great for small kitchens.
          - Water is easy to top up
          - Not too loud

          What I don't like as much:
          - In coffee-priority mode it's always ready to make coffee but you might find the steam pressure low initially. Not a big deal and kind of how it's meant to work. I just remember turn on the steam for a split second before I grind beans for my first coffee, and the detected drop in steam pressure/temp wakes the steam up so it's ready in less than 30s when I need it. Once the steam is awake it's not outrageously powerful (typically 2-2.5 bar) but fast enough for a newbie like me to stuff up a pot of milk
          - While coffee-priority mode makes the group temperature very stable, it is stable within certain parameters (e.g. make your second coffee within 5 minutes - see Dave Corbey's review). I'm sometimes nervous that I've "missed the window" because the machine doesn't actually tell you when it's overshooting. But honestly the coffee tastes good, I could always get a grouphead thermometer, and if I chose another HX based on this criticism the grouphead temp instability is much worse with others

          Having used the Mara X since January, upgraded from a Breville Barista Pro, I have yet to get upgrade-itis. While the sensors and computer make for clever coffee-priority mode, in steam priority mode it seems like any other E61 HX so longevity should be on par with any other Lelit.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ronin do you have the quickmill can you comment on the clearance under the PF spouts if can easily fit a mug+scales, I've seen youtube video and looks like small room under there?


            teem +1 for Mara X, sounds like you're a happy camper thanks for the detail feedback on it. So the steam wand you have to always prep it/wake it before every time you pull your shot yes?

            Comment


            • Ronin
              Ronin commented
              Editing a comment
              There is plenty of room but i’ll measure it tomorrow for you if I get “time” (read: if I remember lol)
              What cup & scale?

            • teem
              teem commented
              Editing a comment
              It only applies if the machine has been unused for a while, and pulling a shot will wake up the steam boiler. If you won't prep it first then by the time the first shot is pulled you'll have okay steam power (1.5-2 bar) but you may need to wait an extra 20s for full power (2.5 bar). No issues for subsequent shots. Not a major issue, and I'd prefer that minor step than having to temperature surf the grouphead with cooling flushes like on other HX.

          • #7
            a couple of hundred more and you could get the Crem One HX model with removeable drip tray insert that allows extra clearance.

            Comment


            • #8
              Of all of those, I'd check down the back of the couch and between the car seats and then beg the rest and go Izzo Vivi from site sponsor/importer Casa Espresso.

              It's worth every single extra cent in build quality, finish, longevity and performance. It's in a different league and you can see where the money goes.

              Comment


              • noidle22
                noidle22 commented
                Editing a comment
                Do you know if Quickmill and Izzo are the same company or if they just share a common supplier for many of their parts?

              • Caffeinator
                Caffeinator commented
                Editing a comment
                Nope- totally seperate companies and Quickmill build and finish is streets away from the quality of Izzo.

            • #9
              Ronin thanks for that, like an Acme latte mug and a market lane pocket scale for example

              Comment


              • Ronin
                Ronin commented
                Editing a comment
                Plenty of clearance.
                140mm from bottom of E61 group head to the drip tray

            • #10
              Q: can you adjust the opv on the Rubino? No gauge to check it around 9bar?

              Comment


              • Ronin
                Ronin commented
                Editing a comment
                Can be adjusted but need to get in the back of the machine.
                No access from the front face

            • #11
              +1 for Rubino. Had mine for 12 months and I can't fault it. The steaming power is fantastic too. Coffeearoma (site sponsor) have it at a good price.

              Edit: you could also stretch it to an Expobar Minore at your budget. They run around the 2.5k mark.

              Comment


              • #12
                Thanks guys for the responses so far, very helpful.. clearance ok thanks Ronin

                Oh more choices beanthere21, adds another one into the mix now ?

                Comment


                • #13
                  Originally posted by Caffeinator View Post
                  Of all of those, I'd check down the back of the couch and between the car seats and then beg the rest and go Izzo Vivi from site sponsor/importer Casa Espresso.

                  It's worth every single extra cent in build quality, finish, longevity and performance. It's in a different league and you can see where the money goes.
                  Second this opinion. Seen one a few weeks back and it's definately a quality built machine. After seeing it in person I'm certain it's my next machine.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Originally posted by beanthere21 View Post
                    +1 for Rubino. Had mine for 12 months and I can't fault it. The steaming power is fantastic too. Coffeearoma (site sponsor) have it at a good .
                    @beanthere21
                    How do you find the manual preinfusion on it, I watched a video and it looked tricky to engage (ie. had to move brew level to 8/10 on position ?)

                    Comment


                    • beanthere21
                      beanthere21 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      To be totally honest I haven't ever really used the manual preinfusion. I have an E61 thermometer added to the hex bolt hole on the brewhead. I always pull the shot as quickly as possible after the cooling flash so I don't undershoot the brew temps.

                  • #15
                    Hi bakerman ,

                    I'm a long time Bezzera user, over 20 years, so can share some of my experiences with the brand. I have owned two BZ99 machines, a Magica and just a few months ago upgraded to a Duo DE.

                    I have no direct experience with the BZ10 but from what I've read about it online, it appears to be a more modern version of the BZ99, i.e. an HX machine with Bezzera's proprietary group head and simple push-button controls.

                    When I owned the BZ99 machines I was using a blade grinder because I simply knew no better. Shots were therefore inconsistent and I found that the Bezzera group head didn't cope with an over-filled portafilter basket - it resulted in a messy overflow. When I upgraded to the Magica I found that the E61 head was more forgiving of an over-full portafilter basket. I purchased a new grinder (a Rocky) not long after getting the Magica so my espresso quality increased dramatically. About a year later I upgraded from the Rocky grinder to a Mazzer Mini which increased my shot consistency and quality yet again.

                    With my recent upgrade to the Duo DE, I'm now back using the Bezzera proprietary group head with its lower shower screen. But with a better grinder and what I've learned over the years in terms of dosing, I don't have the overflow problem I experienced with the BZ99. And there are some benefits of the Bezzera group system over the E61, at least in my mind.

                    The E61 group head design has both the drain pipe and the activating lever as part of the head. I love the retro-mechanical appearance of the E61 design, but having used one for some years I must say that accessing the lever is a bit awkward because it is positioned between the group head and the water spout. This also reduces space for cups and especially so if you are using the double portafilter and pouring into two cups. You have to move the water spout out of the way each time which I know is not a big deal but I found it pesky.

                    On machines with a Bezzera group head, the drain pipe is within the machine casing and the drain outlet protrudes just above the tray. This makes for more open space under the head for cups and mugs to be moved into position. And while the lever looks great on an E61 machine, I've found that push buttons are easier to user and it's less likely you will brush your hand on the hot group head (done that plenty of times).

                    Having said all that, I think the Magica is a wonderful espresso machine. It makes pulling consistently good shots easy. My better half who is not interested in the finer details of espresso machines happily used the Magica every day for many years without issue. The boiler is quite powerful - I could steam a large jug of milk very quickly and it still had plenty of steam to go and I could pull shots at the same time without problem. The powerful boiler is why the Magica heat-up time seems a bit slow, but of course we are all impatient for that first coffee of the day. The Bezzera group head on my Duo is heated by elements which I think is the same on the BZ10 so that makes heat-up a bit quicker.

                    Another thing, on the Magica I could put the portafilter back into the head after rinsing to keep it warm for subsequent use. I can't do that with the Bezzera group head because the portafilter seems to get stuck to the gasket. Must be just the design. Not a big deal but it's a difference.

                    Regarding filter baskets and the deeper shower screen on the Bezzera group head, the standard double basket from Bezzera is 20g and I have also purchased a VST 18g basket for use in a naked portafilter. I've had no issues at all with either of them.

                    Anyway, as a long-time user I can vouch for Bezzera machine quality. And as you probably already know, make sure you have a decent grinder. It makes all the difference.

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