Hey thanks for replying!
I see you’re opening up a store at Chisholm next week on the 22nd.
that’s great cos I’m at Heddon Greta and would love to come have a look when you open
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Help me make a decision! - Lelit Mara X vs. Expobar Leva vs. Expobar Minore III
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This is a tough brief! My short answer is - don't miss out in the short/medium term while you wait for an "end game" machine. You might be pleasantly surprised by the results from an E61 with flow control. But there's no point putting flow control on a $1,000 E61 box that runs hot or is full of scale so you'll need a higher budget. The long answer involves a conversation, and preferably a demo or three! :-)
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Hi Charlie I just found this thread and wanted to get some recommendations also,Originally posted by JetBlack_Espresso View PostHi Barry,
Yes, I see this all the time and will own up to doing exactly the same thing when considering my next toy (coffee-related or not).
Unfortunately, I don't think I can add much here as you already know what there is to know and now it's time to decide what you want.
But, for what it's worth I can confirm your thinking. You won't get better coffee on the more expensive machines, but a purchase like this is not just about the coffee is it
charlie
I currently have Breville Oracle and have just started using a Eurkea Specialita instead of the built in grinder I’d would like to eventually upgrade from my oracle to an e61 machine with retrofit flow control but since seeing the Decent De1 that’s the machine I really want.
It’s price tag will take a while to save up for so I’m wondering if something like the decent was the end goal what e61 machine with flow control would be a good sideways upgrade from the oracle to get practicing with flow control?
OR should i buy a second hand (or new) Breville dual boiler and do the slayer mod to add flow control be a nice extra benefit before the big upgrade?
I could then sell my oracle to make some cash back and have a more functional machine
are there any E61 machines for around $1000 that i could do flow control on to play around with ?
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If you're planning to "make a few dozen or a hundred coffees in a morning.", seems to me neither one is good choice given the recover time required between shots/water tank capacity. I'd personally consider a rotary pump machine with larger boiler size.
I've owned quite a few different coffee machines in the past few years, the build/finish quality of expobar is really among the worst, so much so I'd never consider buying expobar again. Lelit is not great either, at least not the one I owned (PL60T).
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The Mara X has PID control and just as importantly has some clever logic in the control board to achieve great temperature stability. This is why espresso is going to taste great. If you want great tasting coffee and a compact machine it's a great choice. Of course there are reasons to consider other machines. For example, the Profitec Pro 600 is a dual boiler with faster heat up. And that's before we get into detailed design considerations, aesthetics etc.
charlie
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Hi there, JetBlack...
Newbie here, just boarding the same boat as the op, although with other machines on the short list... or, more appropriately, long list!
Regarding your comment about the Mara X... “ You won't get better coffee on the more expensive machines”...
When comparing the espresso from the Mara X to other machines (say ECM Mechanica Slim, Profitec Pro 500, Pro 600), would you say the flavour of the espresso shot is pretty much the same, or will you get better tasting espresso from higher end HX machines and/or DB machines, especially those with a PID, thus with better temperature control?
Thanks in advance and sorry for the thread hijack. 😃
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Hi Barry,
Yes, I see this all the time and will own up to doing exactly the same thing when considering my next toy (coffee-related or not).
Unfortunately, I don't think I can add much here as you already know what there is to know and now it's time to decide what you want.
But, for what it's worth I can confirm your thinking. You won't get better coffee on the more expensive machines, but a purchase like this is not just about the coffee is it
charlie
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Apologies for a slight thread highjack, but I would be interested to get Charlies take on my current decision process.Originally posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
Nope. Both the Minore and Mara have a vibe pump and plumbing isn't supported "out of the box". It can be done with a modification though ... Your Mega Crem had a rotary pump and was built to be plumbed. (this is assuming you're looking at the standard Minore. There is also a plumbed version of the Minore)
The Mara will warn you if it is running out of water while you are pulling a shot and let you finish. The Minore will just stop. Neither have a water level indicator.
charlie
I too have been looking at an upgrade to a mid/better level HX machine, and am considering the Mara X, Rocket Apartamento, and Rocket Giotto V. I keep coming back to the MaraX from a logic/value perspective, but then flip flop back to the Apartamento primarily from a looks perspective. From there I then quickly flip over to the Giotto, as its "not much more" than the Apartamento, and I like the look of it even more - as well as the few upgrades over the Apartamento.....
Then my sensible head kicks back in (which granted, has little to no place in such discussions!) and realises that I'm considering spending $700-1100 more than the MaraX, primarily for looks and arguably slightly better build/finish quality?
I'm sure Charlie that you've seen customers spend inordinate amounts of time agonising over similar decisions, and was wondering where you might typically try to lead them?
Cheers
Barry
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Yes, of course, I was confusing myself. The Office Leva I looked at has a plumbing option.Originally posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
the Minore ... plumbing isn't supported "out of the box"
Thanks for all your advice Charlie, I might give you mob a call tomorrow to discuss and hopefully decide on which machine!
Rob
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Nope. Both the Minore and Mara have a vibe pump and plumbing isn't supported "out of the box". It can be done with a modification though ... Your Mega Crem had a rotary pump and was built to be plumbed. (this is assuming you're looking at the standard Minore. There is also a plumbed version of the Minore)Originally posted by Billy-o View PostCheers Charlie.
Regarding the two machines, I know the Minore III can be plumbed in (on my old Expobar Mega Crem I just used drums of rainwater at the markets for my "plumbing in") and the Mara X can't.
The Mara will warn you if it is running out of water while you are pulling a shot and let you finish. The Minore will just stop. Neither have a water level indicator.Originally posted by Billy-o View PostDo either of them have a reservoir indicator and/or low water warning or do they just turn off when empty? One thing I really like about the otherwise frustratingly poorly built EM6910/7000s is you can easily see what your water level is and easily refill the reservoir.
charlie
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Cheers Charlie.
Regarding the two machines, I know the Minore III can be plumbed in (on my old Expobar Mega Crem I just used drums of rainwater at the markets for my "plumbing in") and the Mara X can't.
Do either of them have a reservoir indicator and/or low water warning or do they just turn off when empty? One thing I really like about the otherwise frustratingly poorly built EM6910/7000s is you can easily see what your water level is and easily refill the reservoir.
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No worries I just figured you were being conciseOriginally posted by Billy-o View Post
Apologies, that wasn't meant to come across as so brusque!
I do have a good commercial grinder, so if I did do a bit of 'event' coffee-making I'd be right on that front.
Given the Minore and Mara X are around the same price, what relative advantages would you see in each of them?
Regarding Minore v Mara X: Even though the Minore is a dual boiler and the Mara X is a heat exchanger the Minore is a bit "simpler" in design, so you may find it easier to work on (bit more space inside, fewer components etc). Having said that, you shouldn't need to get into your new Mara X any time soon whereas you may be into your pre-loved Minore sooner (we service them before sale but obviously components that are working are not replaced). And as I've said in either case you should be able to sort out any issues with support from our workshop team.
In terms of performance the temperature stability of the Mara X will be better than the Minore but the Minore gives you more adjustment on the brew boiler temperature (Mara X has three setpoints and the Minore can be adjusted as you see fit). The Minore has good steam performance and there is some adjustment via the pressurestat whereas the Mara X uses some clever logic to ramp up the steam pressure (even higher than the Minore) when you need it without adversely affecting the brew water temperature.
charlie
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Apologies, that wasn't meant to come across as so brusque!Originally posted by Billy-o View Post
Cheers, Charlie, I have a commercial grinder, this question is really about coffee machines.
I do have a good commercial grinder, so if I did do a bit of 'event' coffee-making I'd be right on that front.
Given the Minore and Mara X are around the same price, what relative advantages would you see in each of them?
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Hi Billy-o,
Whether you go for the Minore or Mara X, you can rest assured that you'll have the support of our experienced workshop and parts teams for any issue that may arise.
In terms of performance, the Mara X lives up to the hype. The two thermocouples and heating logic combine to achieve thermal stability that rivals saturated group machines.
If you want to pump out dozens of coffees, you'll need a commercial quality grinder. For ease of use, quality in the cup and value for money I can recommend the Ceado E7P.
charlie
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