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  • NS Musica help..

    I've just bought an NS Musica Lux (2 yo) and have a question for the experts. I'm grinding (Breville SG Pro) 20g in a double basket, and getting a pour of 40ml in around 28 seconds. The problem is the coffee doesn't seem quite rich enough, and has a slight bitter aftertaste. Can anybody here clue me in to what I should adjust to try and improve things?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    The first questions would be, what beans are you using? Where were they sourced from? When were they roasted? How have they been stored?


    Java "All about the beans" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    • #3
      So I’ve recently started using a musica too. Sweet spot has been grinding finer and dosing around 16-16.5g in the double basket. Aiming for around 33g in 30s. Found 20g dose to be too much.

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      • #4
        The opv kit made a difference for me.

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        • #5
          Ok so I use beans from 7 Grams Coffee, the Mika D'oro blend. I'm sorry if my post is a bit ambiguous, just finding the taste just not quite as rich and full as I think it should be. I should add that the coffee I got from my Sunbeam 7000 was fine so it's something I'm doing.

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          • Whorl
            Whorl commented
            Editing a comment
            I upgraded from the EM7000 to the Musica as well. Took a while to dial things in and learn the machine, and initially experienced the coffee tasted different.
            I have since dialed in more effectively.
            I have to grind much finer and dose less (around 16-16.5g as noted above). More attention to puck prep with WDT and puck raking. Extraction is much better now. No bitterness (wife approved!) and more consistent.
            The Sunbeam seemed to love overdosing the basket and was more forgiving, but the taste was definitely not as good as the Musica produces. Also the Sunbeam has no OPV, so extracted higher pressure and probably more channeling.

        • #6
          IvanG. Assuming you are using the same filter to test on both machines, the way to diagnose is to use a portafilter pressure gauge and a thermometer to measure water temp. If you aren't using the same filter to test both machines you won't have a baseline for grind or dose quantity. That is the first step. After that you can measure differences in pressure and temperature. As Jackster says, the "OPV made the difference".

          Your machine may have an OPV fitted but they weren't a standard feature on a Musica. If I were you I would also check if gigleurs have been fitted onto your group head. I would definitely install them if the group doesn't have them. This way you have full control i.e., 12-14 bar into the boiler and 9 bar (static) at the group head. See www.Electros.it

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          • Whorl
            Whorl commented
            Editing a comment
            Pretty sure OPV standard on the Musica. They changed the design in 2015, but it’s always had one.

        • #7
          Whorl you’re probably right but there’s only one way to check… open the box! (I missed the remark that he had bought a 2yo machine)

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          • #8
            Correct URL is www.elektros.it. It’s a k instead of a c.

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          • #9
            So apparently the Musica does come with an OPV.

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            • Whorl
              Whorl commented
              Editing a comment
              Any improvement with your shots?

            • Swiftly
              Swiftly commented
              Editing a comment
              Thats great. So you could try measuring the water pressure and temperature at the group head and adjust the pressure on the OPV to match. Bear in mind, the Breville may not have the pressure you want either! Anyway, its fun to diagnose and tune.

          • #10
            Tried the finer grind and longer time, and my shots are much better now.

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            • #11
              This is the same issue with any extraction.

              Looking up your listed Coffee Bean, "Mika d’Oro" from 7 gram, is described on their site as:
              a rich and complex blend of beans roasted to a medium level,
              The key here is "medium."

              You'll need an extraction temperature of between 96 ℃ and 98℃ for this.

              The problem with most assessments focusing on shot times, tamping, pressure is they ignore the single most important factor, temperature. By grinding finer as your most recent comment communicated, you are attempting to change the temperature by increasing the pressure in your hydraulic system by grinding finer. By increasing the pressure (by adding resistance in the hydraulic system through more blockage with a finer grind), you are effectively increasing the pressure in your hydraulic system and thus increasing temperature.

              I'm guessing your Nuova Simonelli, like most NS machines sent to European, Australian, or North American markets has been calibrated for a light roast, and therefore when properly functioning and using a good grind and tamp, will produce extractions around 92℃. This is not the right temperature for a medium roast.

              To achieve a higher temperature in an HX (Heat eXchanger) machine like the Nuova Simonelli Musica - an incredible feat of engineering and a technological marvel by the way - you will need to increase the pressure in your Steam Boiler slightly to ensure a higher kinetic energy transfer to your HX Line (a C or U shaped tube that runs through the Steam Boiler) from your Musica's SteamBoiler. With some experimenting, you should be able to bump up your HX-Line temperature to the optimal 97℃ (or where you like the taste best). You'll have to adjust your Pressurestat (or PID if that installed) to produce the higher pressure in your steam boiler - again, slightly, a bit at a time, till you hit the right thermal transfer for your HX Line to get the best extraction of organics from your "medium" roast bean. The Oscars and Musicas use the same HX Boilers.
              Last edited by WWWifi; 24 March 2022, 05:50 AM.

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              • #12
                https://www.casaespresso.com.au/oscar-ii-opv-kit.html

                Yes, this is the kit I got (from Antony as well) and fitted it to my Musica. Maybe mine was older, or a import. But it had no opv. It has like a relief valve on the side of the group head, but that is not a opv like in the kit.
                The relief valve is not adjustable and dumps into the tray. It's more like a safety valve for the hx.
                The opv in the kit is adjustable, and dumps water back to the pump so it doesn't mess up the machines volumetrics. It did need adapting slightly, and a couple of fittings, but well worth it.

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                • #13
                  OPVs (Over Pressure Valves) are an attempt to control the amount of resistance being overcome in a hydraulic system. With experimenting, different OPV adjustment settings can produce different extraction temperatures. Understanding the correct temperature for a specific roast, light through dark, can assist in setting an OPV for production of the best extraction of coffee organics relating to flavour and odor. Each level of roast has an optimal temperature for extracting coffee organics. Controlling pressure in the Steam Boiler of a HX espresso machine is an attempt to achieve a specific temperature. This can be achieved by adjustment of a Pressurestat or an OPV. The Pressurestat indirectly controls the HX-Line pressure/temperature by increasing or decreasing pressure in the Steam Boiler, effectively altering the amount of kinetic energy being transferred to the HX-Line as it passes through the Steam Boiler in the Thermosiphon circuit. An OPV, by comparison, attempts to directly control the amount of resistance in the HX-Line Hydraulic System. A 3-way Solenoid also does this though having an orifice of a specific size. In the Oscars and Musica, the orifice size in the 3-way Solenoids are between 1.1mm and 1.3 millimeters. In an open group (with no portafilter in place), an open 3-way solenoid will produce approximately 1 L of water per minute at the optimal 9 to 10 bar. The Vibratory Pump in these machines will produce approximately 600ml (grams) of water per minute if no portafiler is creating resistance. Commonly, and erroneously, a pressure gauge is thought of as measuring pump pressure - this is not what the pressure gauge is measuring; Pressure Gauges measure the amount of resistance being overcome in the hydraulic system. An OPV attempts to control the resistance in the Hydraulic System. Finer grinding and increased tamping pressure will also increase resistance in the Hydraulic System. This is a lot of variables to try to control.

                  An OPV can, therefore, be thought of as an attempt to fine tune the amount of resistance being overcome in a hydraulic system. The primary job of producing resistance in an HX espresso machine is performed by a Pressurestat, which governs (via pressure) energizing a heating element through a manipulation of a SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw) switch, to heat the water within a HX Boiler System's Steam Boiler, which in turn transmits this hydraulic system overall resistance passively to the HX Thermosiphon loop via kinetic energy transfer between the heated water/gas molecules in the steam boiler and the HX Tube's metal surface. Unfortunately, control of an HX espresso machines Steam Boiler pressure is usually not easy to get at and often requires disassembly of the machine's casing to some degree to reach the Pressurestat adjustment screw. Once a Pressurestat is adjusted (calibrated) to produce the proper pressure in the HX espresso machine's Steam Boiler corresponding to a specific extraction temperature (correct for a specific roast light to dark or somewhere in between) for an optimal grind and tamp, there will be no need to adjust the machine further. An OPV offers similar control but instead of regulating kinetic energy transfer between the Steam Boiler and HX-Line, the OPV attempts to directly regulate the amount of resistance being overcome in the HX Hydraulic Line.

                  Neither method of adjusting the extraction temperature target is perfect, but both have their advantages and disadvantages. The most important thing to keep in mind is that these variables can change over time (resulting in increases or decreases in amount of resistance in the hydraulic system), depending on mineral buildups in a machine, components wearing out or failing, and other factors that make it tough to rely on a specific Presurestat or OPV setting. Moreover, if a person changes their roast suddenly from a light roast to an espresso dark roast, the extraction temperature change required in the espresso machine is 10℃ and expecting to get the same quality of organics extraction from similar tamping/grinding in a dark roast as from a light roast calibrated espresso machine is not possible. And so, we often see, as above, people instinctively attempting finer grinding, increased tamping pressures, adding extra components such as OPV's, gigleurs and many other items, which can be very effective, but in reality, the design of the Nuova Simonelli Oscars and Musica is of such a quality and specification that all that is needed is to adjust (calibrate) the pressurestat on these machines to correspond to the lightness or darkness of the roast, between 92 ℃ for light roast, preferred in Europe, Northern Itally and North America, and 102 ℃ for dark roast as preferred in Southern Italy etc. The Nuova Simonelli Oscars and Musica's are of such a design quality that all that is needed is this pressurestat calibration to produce perfect extractions.

                  Some folks like to diss the Oscar and Musica espresso machines, and this is understandable if they own an different espresso machine. However, the Oscars I and II in particular are amongst the best espresso machines ever invented and manufactured, by any company . . . incredible feats of engineering genius and technological design that rival and equal any espresso machine, including the latest and greatest machines. Indeed, many machines derive numerous features from the patents developed for the Oscars. These new espresso machines are indeed mighty and impressive, but the Nuova Simonelli Oscars and Musica's rival them in every way and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with them as their equal partners in the very impressive field of incredible machines we all have come to enjoy and admire in the coffee culture and communities we share here and in coffee shops throughout the world
                  Last edited by WWWifi; 25 March 2022, 10:00 PM.

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