Selections and recommendations.

[Phinx]

You've been antagonistic up until now but this is just downright rude.

CraigL also gave some nice suggestions and defended me.

'Some' of Jetblack's post felt rather agressive salesman esque and belittled my inteligence/ignorance as a newbie. To the point.... I really didn't wanna bother with this thread anymore. CraigL being Antagonistic or not... How about the worth of his rebuttal?

I recently went to a big prosumer (coffee) retailer where they'd throw out enough lies that I couldn't take them seriously. Just telling me that 'all their' HX & DB (yes DB...) machines heated up in 5-10 mins. Hence why I should just buy from them......

I originally considered jumping on board with a Gaggia Classic Pro and fully modding that. I'd gone and read all the interesting mods and was prepared to diy. I'm incredibly passionate and love to push my moneys worth with extras/mods. But it could never meet my needs. Hence a HX/DB.

Rerouting the OPV is a simple job for Lelit Marax, recommended on many forums. Short and simple. Also, there's a new MaraX revision with this already done.

How many threads here about multiple/far more complicated mods. Yet, no one is warning them about serious dangers or how much safer AU's superior versions are. What am I suppose to say?

[CraigL]

CraigL This is not a global social media platform that tolerates abuse. It's a cooperative community where disagreement is welcome but respect is required.

So, assuming my crimes of indelicacy have been put behind me, tompoland's post above does beg the question. Just what IS this forum for ?

Is it a forum where like minded coffee enthusiasts from ALL OVER THE WORLD can discuss their passion ?

Certainly the membership numbers of the forum would suggest that it might be ?

Or maybe is it something different ?

[CraigL]

You've been antagonistic up until now but this is just downright rude.

Apologies level3ninja if i appeared less than polite in my response to what I perceive to be repeated examples of unethical and deceptive business tactics.

Whilst not being in any way religious I do have strong moral values so lucky for me I resisted the urge to quote Proverb 26:11. It was a powerful urge.

Anyway apologies if I offended anybody and hopefully no hard feelings.

Yachts and Lambos for all 😀

[tompoland]

CraigL you are new here so a heads up. This is not a global social media platform that tolerates abuse. It's a cooperative community where disagreement is welcome but respect is required.

[level3ninja]

You've been antagonistic up until now but this is just downright rude.

[CraigL]

It looks like you've answered your own question. If you're asking what other differences are there between your version and the Mara X-AUS then perhaps you could rely on google and youtube rather than hoping someone will present you with the list and a "how-to-upgrade-to-AUS-spec" guide?



If you want to go the DIY route with an electrical appliance that's up to you. But the risks are real. Youtube isn't a substitute for training when it comes to electrical safety.

charlie

Actually Charlie I didn't answer my own question as I was waiting for you to.

You are the one after all who has asserted that the EU version of the Mara X is materially different to the AUS version.

You didn't and you can't because there isn't any material difference beyond the 5 minute job that you CHOOSE to do re-routing the OPV valve silicon tube back to the tank instead of the drain tray. Instructions which are available all over the internet on how to do it.

Readers might be interested in the 15 videos available on youtube BY THE LELIT FACTORY that give instructions on how to repair their machines.

These range from changing the boiler element, pressure gauge, level and temperature probes etc, the list just goes on and on.

https://www.youtube.com/c/LelitEspresso/videos

How refreshing for a manufacturer to behave in this way by providing end user support in this fashion and one of the reasons I chose the brand. It must be said though that the videos don't assist with the purchase of Yachts and Lambos though.....

[LeroyC]

You just have to see all the coffee business owners like Andy and such in Australia posting photos of their Lambos and boats on Instagram to realise that we’re all being taken for a ride. Being a coffee industry retailer of some sort is so clearly a ticket to the good life that I don’t understand why more people aren’t in the game.

[FNQ]

Hi craigl Apologies for using the term 'demanding' in regards your actions, if this thread is anything to go by I am sure you were civil and courteous. Cheers Darryl

[CraigL]

Hi CraigL

Just for the record , how much mark up on a $4 part will pay the hourly wages for the person you demand to talk to on the phone?

Nice of you to join the thread Darryl and thanks for asking.

I don't know how much mark up Elektros (who is an in Italian retailer BTW) has on the $4.00 part in question but lets guess and say, generously for them 100 %.

So "maybe" it costs $2.00 ?

The same $2 Rocket part retails here for around $25 which by my reconing is a mark up of 1250 %.

Whilst I wouldn't dream of implying "rip off Australia " here but if indicative surely profit on spare parts marked up to this degree is enough to support the wages of staff, no ?

Oh and I wasn't someone "demanding" to speak on the phone BTW.

Rather, I was a "CUSTOMER" politely asking if I could humbly assist their bottom line by spending my hard earned money in their shop, however inconvenient that obviously was for them.

[JetBlack_Espresso]

I wondered whether a local re-seller would chime in on this thread spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) an effort to, "protect the interests of the consumer".🙄

Lets break down some of those "concerns" shall we.


1. Overseas model being "different" to Australian version ??

Just how I wonder is the European model (that I bought) that is sold into a sophisticated and heavily regulated market of 758 million people materially different to the one sold into "Straya" with it's population of 24 million ?

I suspect that it's nothing more than it's AUS model designation but perhaps we will be told ? If not, FUD.

Yep it doesn't have a Aus/NZ tick of approval but I don't care.


2. Local machine having modifications ??

Yep, I re-routed my silicon pipe so that I don't have to empty the drip tray as often. It took me 10 minutes with instructions on ewe-toob.

It looks like you've answered your own question. If you're asking what other differences are there between your version and the Mara X-AUS then perhaps you could rely on google and youtube rather than hoping someone will present you with the list and a "how-to-upgrade-to-AUS-spec" guide?

3. No warranty ?

The money saved by buying overseas will pay for lots and lots of spare parts (should they ever be needed) and these are very simple machines comprising of plug and play, readily available parts.

Loads of internet videos (even from Lelit themselves) about how they work with any number of forum members happy to chime in with advice.

If you want to go the DIY route with an electrical appliance that's up to you. But the risks are real. Youtube isn't a substitute for training when it comes to electrical safety.

charlie

[FNQ]

Hi CraigL

One of our sponsors put a perspective on why to support local networks, you have offered a countering opinion . Fair enough - each to their own. I was a tad bemused when one of your poor customer service examples was YOU trying to source a part locally rather than use the interweb or wait for your overseas stores to source it for you. Sadly it is all too common for potential customers to vote for the cheapest supplier for the big ticket items , but then want the local network to be available at their beck and call for $ 4 parts. Just for the record , how much mark up on a $4 part will pay the hourly wages for the person you demand to talk to on the phone? Again, for the record, I do support your call for better customer service, but my experience with the coffee community in Australia has been overwhelming helpful. Cheers Darryl

[CraigL]

but anyone who reckons that after-sales service in Europe/UK at comparable outlets is better clearly hasn't left these shores.

Oh, and I must preface my views with this admission.

Prior to covid I flew around the world as aircrew for 35 years.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Quite a promotional love-in between 2 posters with a grand total of 7 posts b/w them. If you reckon there's a gap in the market for an Australian-based business to do things more cheaply than what is on offer....there's nothing stopping you. I have no interest in coffee wholesaling/retailing. Yeh service is not always perfect (and I have experienced a similar respons to the post above when sales staff sensed they weren't getting a sale on the spot at a local specialist retailer), but anyone who reckons that after-sales service in Europe/UK at comparable outlets is better clearly hasn't left these shores.

[CraigL]

I wondered whether a local re-seller would chime in on this thread spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) an effort to, "protect the interests of the consumer".🙄

Lets break down some of those "concerns" shall we.


1. Overseas model being "different" to Australian version ??

Just how I wonder is the European model (that I bought) that is sold into a sophisticated and heavily regulated market of 758 million people materially different to the one sold into "Straya" with it's population of 24 million ?

I suspect that it's nothing more than it's AUS model designation but perhaps we will be told ? If not, FUD.

Yep it doesn't have a Aus/NZ tick of approval but I don't care.


2. Local machine having modifications ??

Yep, I re-routed my silicon pipe so that I don't have to empty the drip tray as often. It took me 10 minutes with instructions on ewe-toob.


3. No warranty ?

The money saved by buying overseas will pay for lots and lots of spare parts (should they ever be needed) and these are very simple machines comprising of plug and play, readily available parts.

Loads of internet videos (even from Lelit themselves) about how they work with any number of forum members happy to chime in with advice.


4. Unable to get spare parts ?

Anyone ever heard of the internet ?


5. Boiler blowing up ?

Really ? Sub standard boilers made just for the European market with the exceptionally safe ones just for "Straya"
See answer to question 1.


6. Support "Strayan" business. Why, because they deserve it ??

I bought a Rocket Cellini Evoluzione V1 years ago direct out of Italy that has given outstanding service.

No repairs needed, no boiler explosions and soon to be up for sale.

It's immaculate, always plumbed in and fed with Everpure H-104 softened water.

Anyway, the power light sits inside a chromed plastic collar that had lost it's plating so I needed a new one to restore the machine to like new so I went about trying to get one.

Searched online, found the part number and googled it. Elektros have it in stock for 4 Euro but I wanted it in a hurry so I rang Jetblack Espresso as they are local to me.

Despite having the part number the response from whoever answered the call was that I had to hang up and email there spare parts department to see whether they had one it stock. Not my idea of customer service.

Called in at Jetblack espresso not so long ago with my wife and as we were looking at a particular machine we were asked by the shopkeeper, "will you be buying a machine today ? " When I said no, she walked off.

Also not my idea of customer service but indicative nonetheless of what you get in this country.

So excuse me if you will for spending my hard earned money were I see fit and sharing my experiences of having done so.

I value price AND customer service but struggle with concept of the "Australia tax" and won't pay it when I don't need to.

As for what I think of customer service in this country ? To paraphrase Gandhi, "I think that would be a good idea".

[JetBlack_Espresso]

It's your $$ to spend as you wish of course. But here are some points to consider so that you go in with eyes open:

1. overseas models are often not the same as the local version. For example, the Mara X which is available through authorised stockists in Australia is the "Lelit Mara X-AUS" which is exclusive to Australia. This is the version that has passed (with modifications as required) local safety regulations. This is not the same as overseas "safety" marks such as CE etc which don't mean very much (a manufacturer can put a CE mark on a machine without third party approval)

2. the local version of machines often have other modifications to suit the local market. An example of this is the re-routing of the expansion valve water to the tank rather than into the drip tray on the Mara X-AUS.

3. locally sourced machines come with warranties and guarantees backed by Australian consumer law and a network of authorised sales and service agents that have invested in local resources to look after their customers. Buy from overseas and you are relying on that specific vendor to support you if something goes wrong (ie there is no "worldwide" warranty that covers you).

4. if you have an issue with a part that isn't a normally stocked item (either because it is not present in a local version or it is an unusual failure) you may find it difficult or impossible to get that part locally.

5. Our safety regulations are there for a reason. Consider the ramifications of an electrical pressure vessel (ie coffee machine) that hasn't passed local safety approvals which results in injury or damage to property.

6. Selling machines is relatively easy. Supporting customers to look after their machines and when things go wrong is the bit that requires a bit more effort and investment - in people, processes, parts inventory and building a network of service agents to mention a few. When something does go wrong or you just need some help, you'll appreciate the support of a local network of companies willing and able to get your machine back into action efficiently. In return, buying from one of these companies is a great way to support them.

charlie