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Need a little help with consistency please

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  • Need a little help with consistency please

    Hi guys, I have an ECM tecnika and a Compak K3 that have been serving me well for the last 4 or 5 years as my skills and knowledge have grown... Every morning I have the machine warmed up for 30 mins (on a timer) and I make the same three Coffees I always make - double Espresso, long black and a cap last. The problem is that the first extraction is great, starts dripping through at around 8 seconds, nice thick dark and syrupy and finishes well by about 30 or 32 seconds. Then I repeat the exact same process, exact same dose exact same grind etc... and the shot pours a bit lighter and thinner..... and by the third extraction, it is thin from the start and blonds very early. I'm using an IMS 20g basket always filled to 20.5gms and if I ever need to change the grind I always purge it well before next dose. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong here? Thanks

  • #2
    Interesting. One possibilty is that the grinder is producing a coarser grind each consecutive grind. If you can measure the pour time and weight out that may provide a clue. And I'm guessing here of course. Hopefully someone else can put a more definitive finger on it. But that would be my first diasnostic attempt.

    Comment


    • #3
      Adam - Age of Roast / Freshness of Beans is ?
      How many grams out in that shot that is - 8sec P.I, 32sec duration?

      I just recommended the Compak to another CS'er - but he is in a different circumstance / stage.

      Ive had a Compak K3 (58mm flat blade) - and it was in perfect cond., Checked it with a Site sponsor / Compak dist.
      Compared it point for point shot wise on his Comm Cafe a NS 3group / K10 grinder.
      The K3 performed all Aok.
      But I could not get in sync with it and get a slow syrupy shot consistently.
      More so when Id slowly creep up on the that slow syrupy shot when I was Nearly there it'd go next adjustment staight to locking up the machine.... This was over and over across 18mths.
      It was the stepless model but I wonder whether Compak changed the adjustment thread when they upgraded from the stepped version.
      I ponder?

      Anyway I stepped up to a 64mm flat blade (SJ) and bingo everything that was failing including adjustment of the shot opened up like magic for the first time in my whole espresso journey.
      Im sorry to say it but I dont think the grinder is up to the level your asking of it.
      Dont take my word for It, see if you can borrow a grinder and see if my experience then corresponds with yours? It would only likely take 4-6 shots experiment.
      If you are in Brisbane or surrounds Adam Im happy to offer a spare one I happen to have, PM me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks EA. I work at a specialty roaster, so the beans are always around a week old and of the best quality. I was thinking it may be the grinder.... do you think it is the blades, or the actual machine itself? Just wondering how often Compak suggest replacing the blades. Ps I have the 58mm stepless version. Thanks

        Comment


        • EspressoAdventurer
          EspressoAdventurer commented
          Editing a comment
          Grab a grinder from your work and try it. Ive found numerous times that the grind setting on a commercial machine requires a courser setting than whats My setting on my single group (vibe pump - ok so yours is a rotary ! YMMV).
          Note my shots are typcally are slow syrupy. 1gm / sec overall. Say 34g in 37 sec.
          I also pull a shot for my Wife / SiL in a Synesso single basket, 24g in 25-28sec.
          I vary my shots constantely at home and run with baskets from the Synesso single thru to 15g/20g/22g VST Dble / Trple, HQ Precision and other OEM baskets.
          All with a P.I. of 7sec. but varying recipe / grind settings to suit my cup sizes.
          As is accepted with espresso change one thing at a time and measure the result. Also then go back to what you were doing and see if that change matches the prev result.
          As said in my post above Im not suggesting you change out grinder straight up, but giving you my experience And food for thought.
          Report back your findings for others benefits.

      • #5
        To rule out the grinder being the issue, try grinding all 3 doses at once and then swap the order you pull the shots. If the same thing happens, then it is probably the ECM and if the pattern changes with swapping the grind order, then it is likely the grinder.

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        • #6
          What happens if you wait 5-10 minutes between making each coffee?

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Lyrebird View Post
            What happens if you wait 5-10 minutes between making each coffee?
            Haven't tried that one.... I do always wait until I have full pressure again before pulling the next shot. Is usually one minute between shots.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by EspressoAdventurer View Post
              I just recommended the Compak to another CS'er - but he is in a different circumstance / stage. Ive had a Compak K3 (58mm flat blade) - and it was in perfect cond., Checked it with a Site sponsor / Compak dist. Anyway I stepped up to a 64mm flat blade (SJ) and bingo everything that was failing including adjustment of the shot opened up like magic for the first time in my whole espresso journey. Im sorry to say it but I dont think the grinder is up to the level your asking of it. .
              Yeah, I kind of think that's possible.... but it never used to be a problem, and it's only a couple years old? Thanks

              Comment


              • #9
                Using a Compak K3 Touch currently while the Kony-E is getting sorted out.

                Produces excellent espresso, grind size is very even and fluffy with minimum fines. The only genuine criticism I have is that it is a little messy compared to other grinders I have used but that has been easily overcome. Doubt the burrs need to be replaced at only a couple of years old, should be good for at least 250-300Kg. Are you Single Dosing or using the hopper with a load of beans therein? A loaded hopper produces much more consistent results...

                Have you stripped the grinder down to make sure it is thoroughly clean throughout the grind chamber, and the exit chute. Need to make sure that the burr-carrier threads are thoroughly cleaned too. Put it back together, set it at your previous grind setting and try pulling a series of shots using freshly roasted coffee and see how you go.

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                  Using a Compak K3 Touch currently while the Kony-E is getting sorted out. Produces excellent espresso, grind size is very even and fluffy with minimum fines. The only genuine criticism I have is that it is a little messy compared to other grinders I have used but that has been easily overcome. Doubt the burrs need to be replaced at only a couple of years old, should be good for at least 250-300Kg. Are you Single Dosing or using the hopper with a load of beans therein? A loaded hopper produces much more consistent results... Have you stripped the grinder down to make sure it is thoroughly clean throughout the grind chamber, and the exit chute. Need to make sure that the burr-carrier threads are thoroughly cleaned too. Put it back together, set it at your previous grind setting and try pulling a series of shots using freshly roasted coffee and see how you go. Mal.
                  Thanks Mal, I definitely need to do this before anything else. What tool / brush do you recommend to clean the grinder chamber, burrs and carrier threads? Cheers

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    I just use a couple of brushes, one a small ~12mm synthetic bristle paint brush and the other is a hog-hair ~9mm round artist's brush for getting into the tighter places. With a vacuum cleaner and a crevice tool attached, cleaning is a piece of cake. For the threads, I just use a couple of paper towels dampened with IPA (isopropyl alcohol) pushed into the threads while wiping in the direction the thread goes. A couple of times doing this and the threads come up spotless and bright again.

                    After doing this, you will need to to relube the thread using a dry lubricant such as one of the PTFE Dry Chain Lubricants. I got mine from a local bicycle store. Bought it about 10 years ago and still have a half bottle left...

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                      I just use a couple of brushes, one a small ~12mm synthetic bristle paint brush and the other is a hog-hair ~9mm round artist's brush for getting into the tighter places. With a vacuum cleaner and a crevice tool attached, cleaning is a piece of cake. For the threads, I just use a couple of paper towels dampened with IPA (isopropyl alcohol) pushed into the threads while wiping in the direction the thread goes. A couple of times doing this and the threads come up spotless and bright again. After doing this, you will need to to relube the thread using a dry lubricant such as one of the PTFE Dry Chain Lubricants. I got mine from a local bicycle store. Bought it about 10 years ago and still have a half bottle left... Mal.
                      Thanks, Do you use / recommended those grinder cleaning pellets? If so, how often? I've also switched to a naked portafilter to be able to see a little better how the shot pours. Cheers

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Some people use them but I never have.
                        Prefer that coffee is the only thing that ever goes through our grinders.

                        The naked PF will definitely help you to refine your dose, distribution and tamping technique.
                        Not a bad way to use as a method to check that your technique isn't falling away over time as well.

                        Mal.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Gave the grinder a thorough clean out. Looked like it needed it anyway... Will pull some more shots tomorrow and see how it goes. Hopefully better and consistent. Thanks
                          Attached Files

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                          • #15
                            Definitely working better now, and coffee is tasting better. But now that I've cleaned the grinder and reassembled, the adjusting collar is much looser than it was before? It can be rotated (adjusted) with one finger, and it may possibly be moving by itself during grinding. Is there any way to tighten up the tension on the adjusted collar? Thanks
                            Last edited by Adam76; 3 April 2022, 10:30 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Mono
                              Mono commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I’m not familiar with your grinder but expect it is a worm drive adjustment system, that being the case I expect you have nothing to be concerned about.I would guess after cleaning the gunge out it is moving as it should. What I used to do with my Macap was to run a couple of layers of plumbers thread tape prior to reassemby for a similar reason, must say it was all physiological as it made zero difference that I could confirm.You will just need to work out how many layers gives the correct amount of resistance
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