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  • Where next from Moka Pot?

    Hi all,
    coffee newbie here…

    Now with continued working from home it looks like it’s finally worthwhile retiring my Moka Pot and getting a “proper” coffee machine. I have done some research and also submitted a quote to the sponsors, so I narrowed it down to the following three machines.
    • Quick Mill Rubino
    • Expobar Leva
    • Bella Precision
    Keen to get your pro’s and con’s on the above machines or maybe alternatives

    My criteria are:
    • Aesthetics
    • Quality
    • Ease of use/ forgiveness
    • ~$2k budget
    • I drink mostly 3-4 flat whites (…I know) per day
    I figured dual boilers are not within budget, but it then probably needs to be an HX.

    Keen to get your thoughts

  • #2
    Does that budget include a grinder or do you already have one?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LeroyC View Post
      Does that budget include a grinder or do you already have one?
      For the moment it excludes the grinder. I have the Breville BCG820 which should do it for the moment unless there are strong arguments to upgrade

      Comment


      • #4
        The Lelit Mara X seems to be one of the darlings of the HX market at the moment due to temperature stability. I would have it on your list.

        Comment


        • ovonate
          ovonate commented
          Editing a comment
          Yeah these look great. If I wasn't so sucked into the Cremina pit I would probably be downsizing to one of these.

      • #5
        If you have near $3k to play with, have a chat with site sponsor @casaeapresso (Antony) re the Izzo Vivi which is missing from your shortlist. For mine, it trumps your others you have listed on build quality. Perhaps there will be an EOFY special to get you closer to your zone.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by Caffeinator View Post
          If you have near $3k to play with, have a chat with site sponsor @casaeapresso (Antony) re the Izzo Vivi which is missing from your shortlist. For mine, it trumps your others you have listed on build quality. Perhaps there will be an EOFY special to get you closer to your zone.
          Many thanks, I just did and quick search on the Izzo and it definitely looks good but it’s probably ~$500 over my budget. The other I listed are just above $2k (EOFY).

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Donttalk2meb4my1coffee View Post

            Many thanks, I just did and quick search on the Izzo and it definitely looks good but it’s probably ~$500 over my budget. The other I listed are just above $2k (EOFY).
            There is a very good Rocket Premium Plus V1 listed in the For Sale section.
            These have Excellent build quality, HX, Commercial Pressurestat, all you need to get started.
            Leaves room in the budget to-
            Upgrade your grinder with the help of the contribution from sale value of the current grinder - yes you'll notice the difference if you choose well!

            Barista skills is where you should focus first. Best bang / return for effort.
            GL
            EA

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Donttalk2meb4my1coffee View Post

              For the moment it excludes the grinder. I have the Breville BCG820 which should do it for the moment unless there are strong arguments to upgrade
              The Breville grinder will get you going. You might have a good one that works well that you're get perfectly good results from, but as soon as you hit some hurdles in your journey I'd be looking at the grinder as a possible cause. As far as the machine goes $2000 is a touch budget. It sounds like a lot of money, but unfortunately it seems be a figure that doesn't have a huge range of new machines to choose from. The three machines you mentioned are probably ok, but the Quick Mill and Expobar will only be around $2000 if you get them on sale. Even then I'd consider them much lower quality machines than some of their competitors around the $3000 mark. Quick Mill machines used to be pretty awful inside. I've seen inside an old one and it was like a bird's nest with wires and water way too close for comfort. They had a deservedly poor reputation with service technicians for this reason. That was some time ago though and I believe they've put some effort into improving their machines so the Rubino could be perfectly fine. Expobar have been around for ages. They are basic machines that lack some of the nice finishing and build quality of brands like ECM, Izzo and Rocket, but they are often quite reliable if well looked after. Personally I'd be looking at Lelit machines if I had $2000-$2500 to spend, and would probably put a Nuova Simonelli Musica ahead of the Bella that you've mentioned. In the Lelit range the Mara X is probably one of the best value HX machines with some really clever features that give it some of the same benefits of a dual boiler. It has the exposed E61 group as well which seems to be the aesthetic you're after. If you don't mind a more boxy machine the Lelt Elizabeth is hard to beat for an entry level dual boiler other than the Breville.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by EspressoAdventurer View Post

                There is a very good Rocket Premium Plus V1 listed in the For Sale section.
                These have Excellent build quality, HX, Commercial Pressurestat, all you need to get started.
                Leaves room in the budget to-
                Upgrade your grinder with the help of the contribution from sale value of the current grinder - yes you'll notice the difference if you choose well!

                Barista skills is where you should focus first. Best bang / return for effort.
                GL
                EA
                Many thanks - I saw it and it looks great. I am Sydney based though.

                I could get my hands on an “old” ECM Giotto Premium which has been completely overhauled and serviced for $1.3k. Although the machine must be 15+ years old that looks like a fair and good deal - do you have any thought on that?

                That would then also allow for a new grinder and accessories

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by LeroyC View Post

                  The Breville grinder will get you going. You might have a good one that works well that you're get perfectly good results from, but as soon as you hit some hurdles in your journey I'd be looking at the grinder as a possible cause. As far as the machine goes $2000 is a touch budget. It sounds like a lot of money, but unfortunately it seems be a figure that doesn't have a huge range of new machines to choose from. The three machines you mentioned are probably ok, but the Quick Mill and Expobar will only be around $2000 if you get them on sale. Even then I'd consider them much lower quality machines than some of their competitors around the $3000 mark. Quick Mill machines used to be pretty awful inside. I've seen inside an old one and it was like a bird's nest with wires and water way too close for comfort. They had a deservedly poor reputation with service technicians for this reason. That was some time ago though and I believe they've put some effort into improving their machines so the Rubino could be perfectly fine. Expobar have been around for ages. They are basic machines that lack some of the nice finishing and build quality of brands like ECM, Izzo and Rocket, but they are often quite reliable if well looked after. Personally I'd be looking at Lelit machines if I had $2000-$2500 to spend, and would probably put a Nuova Simonelli Musica ahead of the Bella that you've mentioned. In the Lelit range the Mara X is probably one of the best value HX machines with some really clever features that give it some of the same benefits of a dual boiler. It has the exposed E61 group as well which seems to be the aesthetic you're after. If you don't mind a more boxy machine the Lelt Elizabeth is hard to beat for an entry level dual boiler other than the Breville.
                  Many thanks for your detailed feedback - I must admit my head is spinning, there is just too much choice

                  I had a look at the Lelit Mara and will definitely add it to the list.

                  To be honest, this would be my first ‘real’ coffee machine and I don’t want to spend more than low $2ks in case I don’t get hooked and end up using my Moka Pot again

                  Comment


                  • Caffeinator
                    Caffeinator commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Honestly- In this price bracket, I'd suggest you either sit on hands a little while longer to purchase a good one (inside), rather than one that might look ok (outside) and is a dog's internally. You'll save on service/repair. Alternately, get a good preloved one.

                  • Donttalk2meb4my1coffee
                    Donttalk2meb4my1coffee commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Caffeinator, I take that you would recommend the Izzo Vivi as the first “acceptable” machine if I decide to increase my budget?

                  • 338
                    338 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Dont talk to me - if you are considering an Izzo worth looking at this post by @casaespresso with some huge bargains till June 30th. Personally I think the levers are the biggest bargain but some hugely sharp pricing - https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/new...ge4#post918651

                • #11
                  I could get my hands on an “old” ECM Giotto Premium which has been completely overhauled and serviced for $1.3k. Although the machine must be 15+ years old that looks like a fair and good deal - do you have any thought on that?

                  Comment


                  • Caffeinator
                    Caffeinator commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Should be a good and safe bet- if you can ascertain what was actually done to it...

                  • tompoland
                    tompoland commented
                    Editing a comment
                    If you decide to buy it, just makes sure you take a couple of panels off and look inside first. Many a shiny machine has been enthusiastically bought only for the buyer to get it home and discover massive scale build up or rusted pipes.

                • #12
                  Site sponsor @casaeapresso just announced an EOYFS I would recommend you message Antony and see if you can get a deal on the Izzo Vivi.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by Donttalk2meb4my1coffee View Post

                    To be honest, this would be my first ‘real’ coffee machine and I don’t want to spend more than low $2ks in case I don’t get hooked and end up using my Moka Pot again
                    I would recommend buying a better machine such as the Vivi. If you do change your mind because you're not hooked, there is a greater likelihood that you will get a better recovery if you sell the machine on.

                    Comment


                    • Caffeinator
                      Caffeinator commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Wise words...

                  • #14
                    Thought about what I would do if I was starting out again and I had your budget of 2,000 and I needed both a grinder and an espresso machine. I would get a Flair 58 and a Niche Zero.

                    Bear in mind I only drink espresso (no milk) and medium to medium/dark roasts.

                    If steaming was important then I would swap out the Flair for a Breville Dual Boiler.

                    But the Vivi is way sexier ? and very good quality ... so if the budget was say 3,500 then the Flair and BDB would be dropped for the Vivi.

                    And off we go down the rabbit hole....

                    Comment


                    • 338
                      338 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      What state are you in?

                    • Donttalk2meb4my1coffee
                      Donttalk2meb4my1coffee commented
                      Editing a comment
                      338 I am Sydney based

                    • 338
                      338 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I was going to suggest to purchase from either AB or Casa Espresso, whichever was closer and am sure they will both supply at the same price. You are halfway so makes no difference

                  • #15
                    Site sponsor Jetblack Espresso is an appointed reseller of Izzo and they're in Frenchs Forest.

                    Comment

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