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High(ish) End Single Boiler or Low End HX

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  • High(ish) End Single Boiler or Low End HX

    Hi All,

    My Silvia is dying and probably only has a few months left so looking at replacements. Like probably most people on this forum I've dreamt that my next machine would be a step up to something a bit fancier. Ideally I would like a HX machine to be able to brew and steam at the same time, to make things a bit quicker. I am the only coffee drinker in the house and average about 16 coffees per week.

    The machine I "want" is the ECM Mechanika Slim, but I have to face reality that it is well over my budget. I would like still like an ECM machine so the realistic option is that I will get the ECM Casa V, which is effectively a like for like replacement of the Silvia.

    But I would like to try and stretch my budget to the ECM Classika which is a single boiler, E61 group, PID and nice aesthetics.

    This is where my question comes in. The price of the Classika is at the point where budget HX machines start appearing. Is the good quality single boiler going to do a better job than a basic HX? Am I being a bit silly wanting the desirable features of the Classika by sacrificing potentially better work flow functionality a HX would offer? Appreciate this is somewhat subjective.

    Cheers

  • #2
    If you drink mainly milk based coffee then the HX will be great for you. Something like the Lelit Mara X would be a good choice around the price of the Classika. I had a classika and it is an incredible machine, but I was mainly drinking espresso, so didnt steam very often. The steam power is very good, and it wasnt too much of problem for the one or two milk drinks id make for my girlfriend on the weekend. But, if i were drinking milk based drinks all the time it would have been annoying.

    Coming from the Silvia you know the workflow of a single boiler already. I think youll be very happy with the improved workflow of an HX for your mainly milk based drinks!

    Comment


    • dnolsen77
      dnolsen77 commented
      Editing a comment
      I did start looking at the Mara last week, I will investigate it further. When I first bought my Silvia it was between Rancillio and Lelit.

  • #3
    I have only heard great things about the Mara X although I am biased towards Lelit as I have a Bianca.
    I came from a Gaggia Classic so I understand your desires re steaming but.. it is impossible for mere mortals to pull a good shot AND steam at the same time.
    I also love the ACS Minima, it is funky but very well designed and built.

    Comment


    • #4
      I love the Casa - have a very soft spot for it. Would happily go back to it any time. I seem to struggle to get teh same shot quality on HX machines in a consistent fashion compared to single and dual boiler machines. So if espresso is important, look for a good SB that offers control. You could consider the Profitec GO, which is essentially a Casa with a PID. It's brand new to the market but still retains the excellent build quality that ECM/Profitec are renowned for.

      If you're not fussed about PID, the Casa will save you a bundle for excactly the same build quality plus the always-impressive ECM portrafilter. Personally, I did not have temp issues with the Casa IV I had a loan of. I se the externally-adjustable OPV to 8 bar at the guage and got on with enjoying my coffee consistently.

      For what it's worth, I had a dual boiler Lelit Elizabeth and often left the steam boiler off unless I wanted to use the steam pre infusion. Rarely drank milk drinks - only my wife had a latte. And I never steamed while brewing - just too much to pay attention to given I weighed my shots. The Casa IV from memory gets to steam temp in about 45 seconds. No doubt the V is the same or better

      Good luck!

      Comment


      • dnolsen77
        dnolsen77 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for the tip on the Profitec Go, I checked it out. Its interesting where there going with it in terms of colour? Unless it was the particular retailer, there was no stainless versions, they were all coloured. And weird part was there was some parts colour and other shiny stainless, it looked a bit inconsistent. A PID is a definite nice to have, but would probably just save the money.

    • #5
      Thanks all for your comments so far. Common theme seems to be that brewing and steaming at the same time is actually not all that easy on HX. And sounds like a solid single boiler would give more consistent results. Especially given the HX machines I would be looking at are at the bottom end of the bracket, they could be more finicky than top of the range HX.

      Comment


      • TailorCoffee
        TailorCoffee commented
        Editing a comment
        i really think it comes down to whether you are drinking black coffee or milk coffees? if milk coffees then the hx is a better buy, if black coffees then the single boiler. While you may not brew and steam at the same time, with an HX you can steam immediately after brewing, which is a big plus, especially if youre making multiple drinks. with the single boiler bringing the temp up and down is time consuming.

    • #6
      I agree with TailorCoffee. If you're drinking mostly milk based coffee drinks a HX will certainly be much more convenient and quicker.
      I've just recently upgraded my old Silvia to an HX machine and love not having to worry about temp surfing or waiting for the steam to heat up to temp. It's ready to go at any moment on steam or brew once E61 is up to temp.

      Comment


      • #7
        Hi all, i'm a newbie to the group, how do you know your Silvia is dying?

        5 yrs ago when i walked into Jetblackespresso looking for a used machine, they sold me a gen 1 silvia and their cheapest lelit grinder. I have not even heard of silvia. Underneath says machine built in 1996. I thought i paid too much. Few weeks later , i went back and bought the auber pid. To this day i am still quite amazed by this machine. I average about 3 to 4 drinks everyday and it works like a dream to this day. I backflush every Kg or 2 and descale maybe 3 times a year. Always have use filtered water. Machine seemed strong enough to be able to pass down to the next generation.
        like you, i also have been thinking about the HX but don't like the idea about heating up a way bigger boiler and higher temp for just a few drinks. Profitec 300 seemed a good choice but current pricing is pricey.

        Comment


        • dnolsen77
          dnolsen77 commented
          Editing a comment
          Hi Andy, I had my Silvia serviced about 18 months ago the repair technician told me that a gasket on the boiler was leaking and it had corroded one of the bolts (he showed me photos etc of the damage). He said the leak would become worse over the next 12 months and it would eventually lose pressure.

          18 months on its still got good pressure, but leaks lots of water and the hissing of steam escaping is very apparent. After steaming milk the body of the machine is getting burning hot due to the amount of steam escaping inside.

          I unfortunately left servicing intervals a bit too long and then was a bit unlucky the bolt corroded. Otherwise I think I would still have had many more years out of the Silvia.

      • #8
        Hi dnolsen77,

        Just curious what machine did you eventually get after your silvia?

        I had spoken too soon and am having inconsistent "issues" with my silvia. Everything changed after i bought a new ceado e5p, thinking that would up the quality of my espresso. Still have not been able to get consistent results after a couple of kgs..

        Comment


        • #9
          Hi Andyy, I’ve bought an ECM Mechanika VI Slim, all going well it will arrive next week.

          Something that made a big difference with my Silvia was buying a precision basket, a VST in my case. It did take some practice when I first put it in, but after that I got much better results. Could be worth giving this a go, cheaper than a new machine. And the basket can be transferred to the new machine in the event you do upgrade.

          Comment


          • #10
            Everything changed after i bought a new ceado e5p
            Have you tried contacting the good people at JetBlack Espresso?
            I know that they have been supporting them for quite a while now and should be able to assist...

            Mal.

            Comment


            • #11
              Congrats! Looks like a high end HX. Your coffee routine will definitely slow down as you would be busy admiring the beautiful chrome!

              I had used a IMS basket with success before. I also bought a vst basket recently but still unable to get the consistant shots i was used to. Still monitoring, could be that the new ceado grinder takes a longer time to break in.

              Meanwhile, i might get a behmor brazen to pair with my old lelit grinder.

              Do share pics of your new machine when you take delivery..







              Comment


              • #12
                Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                Have you tried contacting the good people at JetBlack Espresso?
                I know that they have been supporting them for quite a while now and should be able to assist...

                Mal.
                Not yet. I bought the e5p from them but i don't think the problem lies w the grinder.

                I typically adjust the grind to achieve a 1:2 ratio in about 30 sec. After i achieve this with the new grinder, the next few shots starts to overextract eg 10g liquid in 30 sec. As i adjusts coarser and achieve the 1:2 ratio, the following shots seem to go up to 50g in 30 sec. I also notice the steam power varies throughout the day (default auber pid setting 105c coffee brewing, steam 150c)

                Still monitoring and trying to figure out the mystery. Any ideas?



                Comment


                • level3ninja
                  level3ninja commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Sounds like retention within the grinder not fully working through until several shots later. From what I've read about that grinder from overseas, it's got relatively high retention/exchange.

              • #13
                Hmmm, roughly how many Kilos would you estimate have been put through the Ceado to date?
                You may have to give consideration to buying a few Kilos of supermarket beans to season the burr-set a bit more...

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #14
                  Originally posted by Andyy View Post
                  Congrats! Looks like a high end HX. Your coffee routine will definitely slow down as you would be busy admiring the beautiful chrome!

                  Do share pics of your new machine when you take delivery..






                  Thanks, I got a little lucky to be honest. The Mekanika Slim had been my dream machine for a while but was just over my budget. But I had two pieces of good fortune, my parents gifted my family’s small sum of money, some of which helped to top up my budget to get me across the line. And site sponsors East Link Espresso gave me a VERY good price on the machine which I could not pass up.

                  And trust me, there will be photos

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                    Hmmm, roughly how many Kilos would you estimate have been put through the Ceado to date?
                    You may have to give consideration to buying a few Kilos of supermarket beans to season the burr-set a bit more...

                    Mal.
                    Had the grinder for about 2 mths. Estimate about 4kgs (1 kg aldi beans, 3 kg $44/kg beans) i find aldi's $16 beans similar quality to coles/ woolies $20+ beans (i may be mistaken). I made 15.5g 3 espressos today. Output : 39g, 35g, 44g.

                    Comment

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