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  • Another upgrade advice request

    G'day fellow coffee snobs.

    Presently I have a Breville Barista Express but am looking to upgrade. I don't have a specific reason for upgrading apart from the knowledge that my Breville is mortal and will one day die, and of course upgradeitis.

    My budget is $2500 - $4000 or so. I could spend more but will restrain myself unless I find a specific reason for spending more. I've just started researching and don't anticipate pulling the trigger for another six months or more. As will become clear I am still collecting my thoughts. Probably I will be posting here a few more times before the final purchase.

    Like so many others the Breville was my gateway drug, bought the day before the first lockdown hit. Since then I upgraded the grinder to a Baratza Sette 270, which I am very happy with. I have a Hario scale, a WDT tool, a precision basket and a few other bits and pieces.

    80% of the drinks I make are milk drinks. On a typical day I make between 2 and 5 coffees. I use Padre and Commonfolk beans, among others.

    What am I looking for? My forever machine. I want something with great build quality that will last a long time and make excellent coffee. To be more specific:
    - The ability to pull shots and steam milk at the same time
    - The ability to make coffees for a group of 6 people without issues
    - Some ability to experiment with temperature (not essential)
    - Pre-infusion (not essential)
    - Either heat exchange or dual boiler
    - Appropriate for my bench space (40cm width, 57cm depth, 61cm height)

    I find myself drawn to Profitec and Lelit machines.

    I'm very interested in hearing from others who started with a consumer grade machine similar to my own and then upgraded. What did you upgrade to? What did you gain from upgrading, and do you have any regrets?

    I hope I'm not boring everyone with yet another upgrade advice thread.

    Thanks in advance for your responses.

  • #2
    I went from a pimped 20 year old Gaggia Classic to a Lelit Bianca about two years ago.
    I found it to be a ridiculous level of upgrade.
    It is easy to use as a basic E61 machine and easy to use as a Flow control machine with a little practice.
    If can smash out shots as fast as you can grind them and steam milk with most of the best of them.
    It is quiet and runs off a smart plug, so it is ready when I get up.
    I have had a couple of problems fixed while under warranty and would probably pay for an extra year(2) for ease of mind.
    If it is going to break it will happen in the first two years.

    I am about to go through a stupid big upgrade and I am already missing my Bianca even though it is still here.
    I just can't keep both .

    Comment


    • #3
      The Bianca is on my shortlist amberale - it looks extremely capable and I love its aesthetic. What are you upgrading to?

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Viy.
        In the spirit of using some of my super to boost the world economy and not being able to get the car I want ( Ford Ranger Wildtrak) for two years I have ordered an ACS Vostok one group.
        Click image for larger version

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        • 338
          338 commented
          Editing a comment
          Amberale, what is the difference between the Evo and Vostok? Besides one being named after a Japanese rally car and the other after a Russian spacecraft?

        • amberale
          amberale commented
          Editing a comment
          The Vostok is bigger (600mm deep) but weighs the same.
          There is a second small screen on the upper left front.

          To quote Dave Corby
          "From the front panel you can set preinfusion pressure to whatever you want. Rotary pump. The small panel is a shot timer showing preinfusion time and shot time…plus it can “end” the shot by a controlled vent of the lever…either by time, or pressure reaching a input value. Two different values can be set for a single or double shot

          These are new features that will appear on the Evo in time. Other than this the boilers, tank and group tech is identical to Evo it’s a beautiful machine and comes in 1, 2 or 3 groups".

        • 338
          338 commented
          Editing a comment
          Sounds like a great present for yourself! It definitely has presence and looks, the Argos and this will be quite a pair. I can see the Argos being the travel machine.

          Lets hope the name doesn't see it hit with a 'conflict tax' like other Russian items such as timber

      • #5
        viy I would put ECM on your list. I went from a very capable Breville Dual Boiler to a second hand ECM Technika and then quickly to a new ECM Synchronkia fitted with flow control.

        I still regard the Synchronika as the best quality espresso machine I've owned. Very consistent pours, easy to change temperature, more control over preinfusion with the flow kit and pretty nice to look at.

        Comment


        • viy
          viy commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks tompoland . ECM seem to have a stellar reputation. I’ll make sure to find a showroom with ECM machines when the time comes.

      • #6
        Originally posted by tompoland View Post
        viy I would put ECM on your list. I went from a very capable Breville Dual Boiler to a second hand ECM Technika and then quickly to a new ECM Synchronkia fitted with flow control.

        I still regard the Synchronika as the best quality espresso machine I've owned. Very consistent pours, easy to change temperature, more control over preinfusion with the flow kit and pretty nice to look at.
        I’m curious to know what your experience was like going from the dual boiler to an ECM?

        I have an Oracle that I’m looking to move away from in the future and would ultimately love to have Decent DE1 as the big upgrade but really like the look of E61 machines and have been eyeing off the ECM & Profitec line

        While i would like to tinker with different profiles on the DE1 I have read of some user saying the honeymoon period of trying different profiles goes away and ultimately your left with a very expensive machine that pretty much functions as an e61 but costs a lot more.

        Comment


        • Blues1143
          Blues1143 commented
          Editing a comment
          tompoland admittedly I am biased but what do you mean when you say a different league re consistency of shots? is there something inherently better re the pump/opv/temp control/screen that allows the sync to perform better (accepting of course the quality of construction is much better)

        • tompoland
          tompoland commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes I wondered if that might prompt a please explain. Fair nuff.

          I started pulling more consistent shots with the Synchronkia but its arrival coincided with an increase in my knowledge of puck prep, pre infusion, the impat of temperature and probably more.

          All of that must have had an impact and it means that while my conclusion that I was enjoying more consistently from the ECM was correct its entirely possible that I gave the machine more credit for that improvement than I should have. I really have no way of knowing.

        • Blues1143
          Blues1143 commented
          Editing a comment
          certainly the European good looks probably don't hurt tompoland

      • #7
        I love the look of the profitec pro 600 which is a DB and fits perfectly within your budget. Adding a flow control device will bring it still to be below the lelit Bianca but would look much better - really do not like the look of the lelit.

        Comment


        • #8
          Originally posted by Phillydelphia View Post
          I love the look of the profitec pro 600 which is a DB and fits perfectly within your budget. Adding a flow control device will bring it still to be below the lelit Bianca but would look much better - really do not like the look of the lelit.
          The Profitec Pro 600 is very appealing to me - do you own one?

          Comment


          • Phillydelphia
            Phillydelphia commented
            Editing a comment
            Nah not at all. I’m just a big fan of the profitecs - they’re value is just amazing at the price point they retail for. Had I known better when I got my machine ( rocket mozzafiato type v) I would’ve gone for the pro 600 for sure.

        • #9
          So looking at the various ECM and Profitec machines on the market I feel like I’d be happy with any of their heat exchange or dual boiler options.

          One thing I didn’t mention - I’d really like programmable shot buttons connected to volumetric flow control. Commercial machines seem to always have these but for whatever reason most domestic machines don’t - not the ones in my budget anyway.

          This means I won’t get everything I want. Since I won’t get everything I want I don’t feel the need to go to the upper limits of my budget if I can get a capable machine for a little less, and I believe I can.

          My current favourites are the Profitec Pro - either the 400 or 500. (600 looks excellent too of course.)

          We’ll see what happens when I get into a showroom and see these things in person.

          Comment


          • #10
            This is volumetric
            https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/...onika-ii-profi

            Comment


            • viy
              viy commented
              Editing a comment
              The Elektronika - unless I missed something - doesn’t allow you to adjust temperature or pre-infusion or anything else. It’s a punch the button and go machine. It’s an interesting feature tradeoff to have volumetrics and not much else.

            • w00dy1981
              w00dy1981 commented
              Editing a comment
              Curious if you can install flow control on an ECM Elektronika and use it?

            • viy
              viy commented
              Editing a comment
              I’m guessing you could w00dy

          • #11
            The Profitec Pro 400 looks like a great little machine. If you're looking for a dual boiler instead of HX, maybe look at the Pro 600. Buy once, cry once?

            Comment


            • #12
              I’m now thinking volumetrics won’t actually give me what I want as what I want is weight consistency not volume consistency.

              This also helps explain why volumetrics isn’t more popular on prosumer machines - most coffee snobs are more interested in weight.

              Comment


              • #13
                Hi Viy, I recently upgraded to the Pro 400, so this will be biased… I use it for 2-3 coffees a day, latte and black. Plus occasionally 4-6 at a time if people drop in. I think it meets all your criteria… the temperature is really stable and adjustable (in a very basic way). Quality seems excellent. Price is right. I really, highly recommend this machine.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • viy
                  viy commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks Stoove, what did you upgrade from?

              • #14
                Did a little look around a couple of showrooms today. I noticed the following machines that I hadn’t previously considered:
                - Rocket Appartamento
                - Wega W Mini (this mainly because I’ve used a commercial Wega machine before and was impressed with it)
                - Izzo Vivi - I don’t know a great deal about Izzo but I liked the aesthetics of this machine.

                Not too fussed right now about PIDs, pre-infusion and the like. Just give me a tank that makes consistent, reliable espresso.

                Comment


                • #15
                  I bought my last machine for a retirement present and because my last sub $2000 machine went on the "I don't want to work anymore 4 days before I retired. I came across an article in a coffee magazine on the Profitec Pro 500 PID Coffee Machine, comment from the wife, "a bit expensive isn't it", to which I said, "you gain what you pay for in the long run", to which she agree. $3000+ later it arrived in a little over 4 days, unpacked it and first dilemma struck me, it's fully manual, been used to pressing a button on a fairly fully auto machine, this one took a bit of learning, but, it has proved to a fantastic machine all over, pours a fantastic coffee in all the different types one would want. Having 2 boilers it also does milk while extracting the coffee, if that is the way some like to do it. I'm so happy with this machine and so glad I bought it, as the coffee taste (I roast my own green beans bought from different places) is so good it's a sticky finger from wiping the cup clean afterward.



                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • viy
                    viy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thanks smokystu. What a beautiful machine.
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