Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Which machine for decent long black?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Which machine for decent long black?

    Hi,

    Probably as many of us here I bought my first expresso machine (Breville Barista Express and Baratza Sette 270wi grinder) during Covid lock down and been using this combo for over 2 years now. I can make a good milk based coffees, but my wife likes long black and I can't make decent long black with BBE (compared to coffee shops) no matter how hard I try.

    I'm thinking upgrading to something better - like Lelit Elizabeth V3 or Mara X, so my question is - if I pay ~2.5k for the machine, would it make better long black compared to BBE? Also, would it be comparable to good long black from a coffee shop?

    Wife will be upset if I'll spend chunk of money and there will be no difference in coffee taste, just another shiny toy

  • #2
    Hey there, not sure if the problem is the machine. Going to suggest that others with more experience with the Breville can chime in but I wonder if your results could be fixed with a different bean or roast level or grinder.

    Can your wife describe what the difference is? That would help.

    PS it could even be something simple like the difference in the water.

    Calling Blues1143 and level3ninja

    Comment


    • #3
      Higher grade machines usually raise the ceiling of possibilities, rather than raising the floor. Skill is a very important part of the equation, and a new machine will require new skills. It might be best to explore that avenue now to really max out what you can get from the BBE. The BBE does have a bit of a ceiling on black coffee, it's designed more for milk drinks. To be honest a new machine that's a HX will have limitations too, although significantly higher. Really depends on what types of roast levels and flavours your wife wants.

      Comment


      • #4
        If your wife prefers long blacks then perhaps you would be better off with a drip machine or even a cold drip.
        It is not my area of expertise but there are a lot of devices designed for great coffee that don't use a big shiny machine and most of them are relatively cheap.

        Comment


        • #5
          my understanding is the older versions of the BBE had the OPV set way to high but they have recently corrected this from the factory, it may help to investigate whether this is the case, you can youtube how to adjust it. otherwise agree with level3ninja re fundamentals of puck prep and bean quality - have you made sure you are maximising both of them?

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everyone, appreciate your help. My wife comment is that coffee from shop is much stronger and has more taste. I agree that it could be the beans we are using, need to try different ones. I also think it could be that I can only use 18gr of coffee beans in BBE portafilter, while most long black recipes talk about 22gr.

            It could also be skill, still learning. Watched so many videos, I weigh every shot, use scales and time every shot, also have home made WDT tool, so I'm really into it

            Will look into OPV mod, my machine is out of warranty anyway so no worries there.

            As a side note, all other things being equal like beans, skill etc. - upgrading to say Mara X or new Profitec 400, should be able to make better cup of coffee, right?
            Last edited by Javaphile; 21 December 2022, 09:53 AM. Reason: Removed commercial link

            Comment


            • TailorCoffee
              TailorCoffee commented
              Editing a comment
              If you want better black coffee then look at either a dual boiler or something like an ECM Classika. Both have the ability to control temperature of the brew water, which can have a substantial influence on the espresso. Alternatively, something like a La Pavoni, Cremina or Flair lever machine will produce outstanding espresso, all at varying price levels.

            • Blues1143
              Blues1143 commented
              Editing a comment
              Yep I would try something not Arjo, wasn't impressed when I tried them a while ago.

            • tompoland
              tompoland commented
              Editing a comment
              I think TC may be onto something here. Temperature is one of the last adjustments I make in trying to "fix" a shot. But I had a new machine on my bench this morning, and in trying to get it optimized I pulled one shot at 90 degrees and it was OK-ish. Then I bumped it up to 93 degrees (same grind size) and suddenly it was much more flavorsome. The difference in flavor was as significant as it was surprising.


              And with Blues1143 unimpressed with that bean, it reminds me of the old saying "you can't get out of a bean what's not in a bean".

              Lastly, "less flavor" can mean a lot of things. If the cafe serves dark roasted beans the flavor will be "stronger" for sure (not in a way that I personally would like but that's irrelevant) and if they serve a light roast then the flavor will likely be "brighter" so also "more taste".

              Given all of the options posted here, it may be easier to simply get a new wife ;-)

          • #7
            Originally posted by dzbeas View Post
            . As a side note, all other things being equal like beans, skill etc. - upgrading to say Mara X or new Profitec 400, should be able to make better cup of coffee, right?
            No, not necessarily. I've had really good coffee made on machines like the Breville you're talking about, as well as others like Sunbeams and entry level Saeco for example. Generally the inputs (raw materials, recipe, skill) are more important than the equipment. That being said some machines do have limitations and it sounds like you need to at least test the limitations of your Breville. If you can check the OPV pressure and adjust if needed that would be a good start. If it's brewing at 10-12bar that is going to have a big negative impact and reducing it to 8-9bar will make a noticeable difference. Also can you adjust the brew temp on your model? If you can I'd suggest trying that as well. Don't worry about the size of your dose as that's relative to brew ratio so increasing the dose size doesn't solve problems on its own. The other option you could try is making a lungo style coffee for your wife. I'm assuming at the moment you make an espresso with added water for her long black. You might find a lungo actually works better on the Breville. Just be aware that it will obviously extract more so if you're using a relatively dark roast you may need to adjust the grind setting to avoid a bitter, over extracted lungo.

            Comment


            • #8
              Thanks everyone, very helpful! Bought IMS Precision 18-22 g filter basket and bottomless portafilter, hopefully will help a little to see what is going on regarding channeling etc.

              LeroyC​, how can one check OPV pressure, I need to buy special equipment for this, correct? I saw some videos that on factory default pressure goes up to 14 bars, a long way from 9, crazy! Not sure when/if Breville fixed this, I bought mine 2 years ago.

              BTW, the coffee brand my wife is very happy with is Santos Supreme blend. Not sure how it rates here, if someone can recommend some nice roasts to try out, please do

              Comment


              • viy
                viy commented
                Editing a comment
                I bought my BBE two years ago as well and did the OPV mod just today. Too soon to judge but chances are if you usually get best results at way above “espresso range” on the dial - as was the case for me - the pressure is too high.

              • dzbeas
                dzbeas commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks viy, yes in my case best expresso I get when arrow is at 1-2 o'clock. Do you have a link to youtube video for the mod by any chance?

              • viy
                viy commented
                Editing a comment
                dzbeas Found a video at Reddit which was very helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/co...tm_name=iossmf

            • #9
              if someone can recommend some nice roasts to try out, please do
              Look no further than than our very own BeanBay...
              Here or here.

              Mal.

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by dzbeas View Post
                Thanks everyone, very helpful! Bought IMS Precision 18-22 g filter basket and bottomless portafilter, hopefully will help a little to see what is going on regarding channeling etc. LeroyC​, how can one check OPV pressure, I need to buy special equipment for this, correct? I saw some videos that on factory default pressure goes up to 14 bars, a long way from 9, crazy! Not sure when/if Breville fixed this, I bought mine 2 years ago. BTW, the coffee brand my wife is very happy with is Santos Supreme blend. Not sure how it rates here, if someone can recommend some nice roasts to try out, please do
                Does your Breville have a brew pressure gauge on it? Sorry I know a little about these Brevilles, but have never had one so not 100% sure. If it has a brew pressure gauge and exhaust valve you can run it with a blind filter basket installed and see what reading is on the gauge. It should be 8-9bar. If you can't do it this way you'll need a portafilter with a gauge which might not be easy to find given the group head size on your machine. In that case it would be a job for a tech.

                Comment


                • #11
                  So I did OPV mod, but noticed one strange thing - before the mod factory preset for double shot would run for ~46 seconds, but after the mod it would stop after ~24 seconds.

                  Is this normal and expected?

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    dzbeas I haven’t used the factory presets for single or double in a long time, so I couldn’t say.

                    At first after I did the mod the results were unsatisfactory. I had a look online again and found that because of the BBE’s thermoblock system modding the OPV increases the temperature of the shot. I remembered that I had set the temperature to 1 degree above default - once I had put it back on default the results improved a lot. So if you’re having flavour issues keep that in mind.
                    Last edited by viy; 26 December 2022, 09:36 PM. Reason: Typo fix

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X