Hi All,
Thank you for your help, just to close out the post, I ended up getting a ECM Mechanika VI Slim, great folks at Eastlink helped me out.
Sorry I didn't make it down to caseaspresso, Eastlink was just easier for me to travel for servicing etc.
So far so good!
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More than welcome to come in and look at the range.
The Vivi PID more than holds its own against others in this price bracket; full stainless steel chassis, visible PID with built in shot timer, cool touch steam wand, toggles (or tap option) for steam and hot water.
For the same price as the Mozizafiato you will get an Izzo and grinder combo.
Cheers
Antony
https://www.casaespresso.com.au/izzo-vivi-pid.html
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For me personally as much as a machine could be good value, I also want to enjoy looking at it daily. Something like a rocket mozzafiato or profitec 400/500 would just be that more aesthetic and also hold a good resale value if you want to upgrade in future. They don’t seem too much more than the izzo’s rrp
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Thanks all, having done a bit more research it seems the Izzo Vivi PID is now a good option.
whilst budget haven't been a massive consideration, I feel aside from rotary pump and double boiler, the $4000+ machine probably won’t do much for me unless I am overly obsessed with a particular look, didn't make it to Casa expresso will try again this weekend.
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I totally agree, especially if you get it on sale. If you get bored with it after a while, at that point I'm pretty sure you have a better understanding of what really matters to you later on for your next upgrade.
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Yyxqq I’m in a similar position to you - seeking to upgrade from an appliance machine (the Barista Express in my case.)
Heres how it seems to me - and note I’m not an expert:
- Between $2500 and $3500 will get you a high quality machine with a good feature set that will last a long time
- Between $3500 and $5000 will get you the same but with extra features for experimentation and/or more capacity to cater for large groups for example
- Above $5000 is only for super-obsessives or millionaires
I have two work colleagues with La Marzocco machines and while they are quite happy with their machines I would question the need to spend $8000+ on a machine when you can get a Profitec Pro 600 or Lelit Bianca for half that price.
At the end of the day it depends on what’s important to you - what features would you actually use, if your machine had them? Would you want to experiment or would you just want a good consistent cup every morning? How about build quality - do you want the very best or would you rather pay for features?
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Hi Yyxqq
Two points to consider or clarify for you.
Firstly LeroyC has completely sent you down the wrong track with his comparison of a BDB with a big toaster.- it has more in common with a commercial conveyor toaster
I am a big fan of the BDB - but along with Leroy have to admit its appearance and larger footprint aren't class leading.
Secondly on the point of yield - and this is just my uneducated guess - the LM may require finer grinding than the BDB given everything else staying the same - (eg getting a 1:2 ratio of shot in approx 30 seconds). This MAY lead to a slightly higher extraction yield. ( Note temperature can also play a part here).
BUT going back to your value question - the BDB on sale price is in my opinion good value and it is able to be tweaked quite a bit ( no hardware changes just use of buttons and manual overriding) Cheers
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Getting more yield from a LM Mini than a BDB has nothing to do with the capability of the machine, it's just the way each will be set up and are being used. The Mini is incredibly stable and consistent, but ridiculously overpriced. The BDB is very versatile with lots of options for various types of use and drinks and also quite good at delivering water at a consistent temperature and flow rate. I've had a BDB for a few years now after owning lots of different machines before that and it's my favourite. A couple of things to consider with the Breville are - while it's at the top end of machines from appliance brands and that includes in its function and finish, it still looks a bit like a big toaster and no matter how clean you keep it, it'll never look as nice as something like an ECM or Lelit. The latest version of the Breville has some improved parts that have sorted some of the reliability issues from versions more than 4 years old. That said I wouldn't pay more than about $1200 for a new BDB, that's where it's value tops out I think. If you can afford to pay more than this then the two machines you've mentioned are good options. Personally I think Lelit offer better value overall and the Mara X and Elizabeth are the pick of their range for value and the Bianca being the peak. Also any retailer that says you MUST buy an E61 machine doesn't know what they're talking about and you should go somewhere else. Pretty much all the innovation in espresso machines over the last few years has been in non-E61 machines, so that says something. Good luck in your search.Originally posted by Yyxqq View PostThanks all, the house hold drinks probably 2-3 coffee a day, 90% of the time, friend upgraded from a bdb to a LM MINI and said the biggest difference he noticed is that he can get more yield and feels he can push more water through the puck, any merit to that? Will have a look at your link Tom! forgot to mention we pretty much only drink strong flat white unless we run out of milk!
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If you are in Melbourne go and have a look at the Izzo Alex Leva or Nurri at Casa Espresso Casa Espresso It is worth the effort to know your options at that pricepoint
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Thanks, started to read some previous posts, I am now getting the same feeling of anxiety as I had when I walked in to the shop... so many choices.Originally posted by 338 View PostYyxqq, welcome to the forum, I think you may be here a bit doing research. I would guess your first comment about needing to do more research is correct.
I saw someone recommending Izzo, only come across this recently, I like the lever operations at the price point.
Re:Lelit Elizabeth, initally I wante to look at the rancilio silvia pro, but the guy that helped me wasn't really speaking highly of any of the non E61 machines.
PS, hope I am getting the quote feature right.
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If you make milk based drinks I would argue the next step up from the Breville Dual boiler bang for buck is the Lelit Elizabeth dual boiler. Dual boiler PID, programmable pre infusion, 58mm group, fast heat up time and will outlast a BDB, it is 2.5 times the price but I would say it would last more than 2.5 times longer if serviced regularly.
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Lelit Mara x and ECM mechanicka slim,
These are both excellent machines.
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Yyxqq, welcome to the forum, I think you may be here a bit doing research. I would guess your first comment about needing to do more research is correct.
The LM would be acknowledged by most to carry a brand premium so would never be top of your 'value' criteria, probably never even get on the list. I think you are looking for the value picks at different price points and then deciding how far up you want to purchase. The Lelit Mara X is acknowledged at one of the better choices in a HX machine, but then you have single boilers below that, a huge raft of choices in Double Boiler machines, Lever Machines, computerised like the Decent. Some are great out of the box, some will offer pressure profiling, easily adjustable temperatures, some will be better for one style of roast, some will handle light, medium and dark roasts. If you want to spend your money wisely probably best doing some research rather than getting a glib answer in one or two posts.
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