I have observed this with a few different grinders over the years, even the Niche with bellows does it sometimes.
Seems to happen more when there are wild swings in temperature, like reallly cold overnight and pull first shot while AC is heating up the environment and subsequent shots will pull much faster.
I have a first run Niche and it can also drift slightly coarser after its been sitting a while and might need a clean / relube of the threads to stiffen up the adjustment.
Prob worth a deep clean and make sure threads are clean with toothpick, wipe everything clean and relube with appropriate food grade grease.
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1st shot always slower? I'm confused.
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Alan1........... you do exactly want you want to do... You bought yourself a nice machine , paired it with a good grinder and I don't doubt you are getting great results. My comments were from the scratch that itch if you so desire type field.... be careful it is a field very near the making excuses for upgrading field.
I think all of us have our routines and workflows and workarounds as well as things we just adapt to .. the big thing is you enjoy your routine and that first coffee of the day.
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Funny FNQ,
I have pulled the burrs before & maybe it needs a decent clean. Maybe I can just purge with a few grams each day. I dont really like the idea of 'wasting' coffee but in the grand scheme of chasing the perfect cup and spending loads on machines & equipment its probably trivial. It is a part of my day i really look forward too and in many ways a fun hobby, so wasting a few cents a day in not a huge price to pay (i see people idle their 4wd with the AC on for 30min daily just to stay a bit cool while waiting to collect theur kids from school)...
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I reckon Charlie is right. There will be grinds further back than the accessible part of the chute. There certainly is on my K3 Touch.
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Hi Alan1
Not only are people amused by "Retention" it is one of those subjects that evokes quite strong responses . (also stay away from Water Quality and the term baked when referring to roasting if you want to keep your threads short) --- Said partly in truth but mostly in jest.
I dont 'know" the Push grinder - but if my google searching is correct it is a 58mm flat burr grinder designed with a small hopper.
If so - after your normal picking at the chute etc -pull the burrs for a full clean ( if you feel confident in putting them back in without finding leftovers). I have found one of my grinders (63-4mm flat burr) has a shot to shot difference of only about a gram but its overall trapped/ flattened/ crevice hidden grinds is probably nearly the same again- and some of these hang around in the grinder for a lot longer than overnight
I use a hopper on this grinder - and just waste/purge about 2 gms through before the first dose of the day... It helps .... in that what i would call the normal timed dose is quite consistent --BUT immediately after a burr clean the dose rate takes a while to settle ( not a true test as I may have also altered the zero point slightly-- but still noticeable)
Now - a statement that would surely result in me being cuffed behind the ear if found out --- my advice is keep giving your other half the first cup of the day!!!! (kidding dear )
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Weighing the beans out would be sensible but would probably be consistent as a similar amount of retention should occur for all grinds (ie 18g in, 17g of new +1g of old out or something like that). But I did the experiment and it might tell the story. I put 18g in the grinder & ground it into a vessel. I then did exactly my normal routine of making 2 double shots. Both were a bit on the ristretto side at 18g in and 32g out, then 18g in and 31g out in exactly 30 seconds (I'm not normally absolutely anal anout 25-30 seconds but for this experiment i was). They both poured well through a bottomless portafilter and tasted good. Out of curiosity I made the first grind and it resulted in 18g in, 27g out in 30 seconds. So it seems the grinder is the most influencing factor in the 1st shot being slow. Now I just need to work out why? Retained coffee? Burr temperature (it does take about 30 seconds to grind 18g which is a bit slow)? Burr alignment? Maybe I just need a new $2500 grinder...
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Perhaps weigh beans out. Then you could eliminate the possibility of picking up any leftover grinds from day before, which may be giving more grinds in the basket on the first shot!
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I'm not overly convinced it is stale, then humidified beans left in the grinder, after one day, that is the cause. I'm quite anal about getting as many grinds as I can out of the chute (I stuff a long toothpick up the chute to pry out any clumped collections). Ive even tried spritzing the beans with water before the grind at several recommendationson the net to stop any clumping in the chute (ive found it made little difference to the clumping or the pour). I weight the beans in but don't weigh them out. I rake the beans similarly and the tamp level seems similar (ie I can't see any obvious volume difference) and even if the doses varied, I wouldn't think I would get a 7 second difference, fairly consistently. Regarding the co2 factor, normally stale beans have less co2 and pour faster. Taste wise I can't compare because i only drink one of the coffees but the shots do sometimes smell slightly different. Im no James Hoffmann but I'm confident i could taste a difference between them if i compared them. Shots 2 & 3 maybe not. I will try dumping a does tomorrow & report back. I'm amused that people are actually curious about thus. Cheers all.
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I believe the faster pour with stale coffee is mostly the loss of CO2 from the beans: the presence of CO2 bubbles increases the viscosity of the coffee and thus slows the permeation through the puck.
If the rest of the coffee is very fresh the CO2 loss from the small stale portion might not be enough to have a noticeable effect.
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This is interesting. Really keen to hear what happens after ditching the first grind. Does sound like the most likely culprit.
Does the first shot taste different usually too Alan1 ?
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There will still be grounds in the grinding chamber from the day before. If it's humid, these will be absorbing moisture leading to a slower pour. If you try the experiment you've suggested you should see two consistent doubles (after ditching the first 18g).
charlie
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Its got me beat. Would love to know though. Someone like Bosco_Lever or CleanFinish or level3ninja or caffienator or EspressoAdventurer or Lyrebird may have an idea.
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Single dosing and I always toothpick the chute and flick it (it's on a flickable spring mechanism) to purge as much as I can into the basket. Normally stale grounds result in a faster pour anyway, so if there were any leftover I would expect the first shot to pour faster. I dont have a grouphead temp sensor or scace but im hoping the temps are similar (i cool flush until there is no more crackle and i try to make it the same for each). I might try an experiment where I grind a double but not make it. Then grind another 2 more doubles and make them to see if they are consistent. Hopefully I'll show whether it is a grinder or machine trait.
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